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Saving Illyriad For All

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Eradure View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 21:02
Hello,

Please read all of this, even if you disagree with me.

 

Current events in the Broken Lands do not bode well for anyone. There have been orders put out by alliances ordering peaceful players to move all their cities from a land claim even if they were well established in the area long before any land claim was made.
Now, this isn't a post regarding the validity of land claims and their place in the game, there's plenty of other posts around for that.
The issue is with the nature in which players are being forced to move. It is, I believe, with a bullying mentality which is not necessary for the growth or success of the alliance forcing them to move. It is not necessary for a player to be forced out of an area when they were there already, pose no threat to the alliance, nor impede their progress. Lack of space, in my opinion, isn't a feasible reason for these actions when the BLs are known for their open spaces.

If they are impeding the progress of an alliance, for the sake of the person at the other end of the game, the minimum done should be to offer assistance to them moving. Rather than forcing them to move, from an area they may have spent several years in, with pure brute strength. 

It is important that these kinds of actions be quelled now, right as they are beginning to emerge, before they become the norm in Illyriad. Before it is your city under threat.

But what can be done? 

Help raise awareness of what is going on. That's the main purpose of this forum post. If this kind of behaviour is condoned now, then it risks becoming the norm. Illyriad would be reduced to a game predicated on bullying others or simply being bullied until you leave the game all together.

Illyriad is a game, let's keep it enjoyable to play for everyone.

This isn't an attempt to stop players enforcing land claims in a reasonable manner. That's a part of the gameplay. It's also not to stop players from ever being invaded. That's a part of the gameplay. It helps keep the game interesting.

This is an attempt to prevent that from going to the extreme. We have to try and remember that there's a person behind the username you're bullying into submission. That once a campaign like this is complete, all that's left is the carcass of a once great game, a few happy players, and a lot of abandoned accounts.

 

Right, well, I think that's all for now.
Cheers for reading



Edited by Eradure - 15 Oct 2017 at 21:02
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Celebrant View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Celebrant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 21:17
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Ten Kulch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 21:24
Please be specific about where this is happening, who is being exiled, and who is pushing them out. There are relatively few land claims, so this cannot be a global phenomenon.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Eradure View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eradure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 21:30
It is not a global phenomenon, however it risks becoming one. As I said, if this is allowed to become the norm then it is an issue for everyone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wartow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 22:13
My sympathy for the logical argument in favor of more PvP to help grow the game is waning and I would think similar open-minded individuals may lean towards a status quo if the treatment experienced by FAM is an example of the PvP movement.

An empire can persist with other players within your territory.  Illyriad can, and should, be a game with a PvP component but at the same time the larger economic machine must be fed by the productive farmers who desire nothing more than hunting, working the market, and interacting with the content added by the developers of the game (they also, in many cases, contribute positively to the social aspect of our time spent in the game).  One would think having such players/citizens distributed around the map would make for better markets and be encouraged by alliances looking to establish an empire, which one may consider synonymous with a land claim.

I think this is where the land claim idea lacks further application across the map, it is the lack of developing a rational model of how to deal with existing cities and defeated enemies.  In a game where, even with prestige, the progress of cities and population is generally slow going, the demands of exodus or reset to the newbie ring are extreme but still used when more reasonable alternatives exist.  

Once a claim is made, and can be enforced, then the claiming alliance can, and should, have some say regarding who can expand within the territory.  They also should impose their will when it comes to controlling the rare resources in their claim, and in general rare resources should be a point of regular, but not necessarily server-wide, conflict.

My fear is the momentum towards the PvP change may be lost when players are attacked without communication, server-wide prohibition on markets are declared, and when such actions are promoted as reasonable it is hard to convince others to your cause and push them into an alternative which may be nearly as unattractive (its like I'm reliving the 2016 election all over again).

We want people to remain in the game.  We want to play alongside military winners and losers that continue without permanent grudges and souring actions among the community.  Lets find that balance to encourage a reasonable and growing Illy community.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 22:34
I can only speak for Elgea. We (Tcol) consider our landclaim to be absolute. In accordance with that view, we reserve the right to remove any and all cities that are not green from MM (regardless of how long they have been there). We have not attacked anyone without communication, and have displayed willingness to work with anyone who volunteers to leave peacefully. 

I do not believe that our actions will cause anyone to abandon unless they are already strongly contemplating to do so based on their own reasons. I do believe that taking strategic actions in a sandbox game engages the player base, keeps them active, and ultimately helps in maintaining a healthy and entertaining experience for the majority of the community.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Levy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 03:53
There are alliances in BL who is does not enforces such behavior.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gragnog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 04:35
If you are moaning about Loki just say it. We are getting any non SINdicate and friends players to move away from us. Most are inactive anyway. We will not have possible enemies close to us. We will help active players move with resources. People have known for a long time this was coming. There are more military minded active players than peaceful anyway so if you claim to want to save the game go kill some cities
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Princess Botchface Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 05:02
Originally posted by Eradure Eradure wrote:

It is not a global phenomenon, however it risks becoming one. As I said, if this is allowed to become the norm then it is an issue for everyone.

When all this first went down, the Anti-Claimers immediately started making all sorts of grandiose statements about bullying, totalitarianism, monopolization and just generally ruining Illy for all the poor precious farmvillyrians who just want to build in peace. Anti-claimers compared Claimers to school yard bullies and all sorts of nonsense along those lines. Ajqtrz wrote at least a dozen passionate yet trolly and fundamentally flawed treatises on the forums about this subject. GC was consumed by it for months, every argument and counter-argument you could possibly imagine was made for and against Land Claims over and over again. The dead horse has been beaten to death a million times already, you're two years too late.

What I learned from all that transpired back then is that at the end of the day, all that mattered was the blood spilled on the field of battle. If you feel so strongly about this, gold up, gear up, sov up, read Ten K's warmonger blog and come at us bro. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mafro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 06:06
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

Please be specific about where this is happening, who is being exiled, and who is pushing them out. There are relatively few land claims, so this cannot be a global phenomenon.

I moved to Jurgor in the south of the BL about two years ago to breathe the free air. During that time I have welcomed all neighbors, provided resources to those that accepted them, and have otherwise been as neighborly as possible. That's as true for members of the SINdicate as for others. I've quietly been exploring the various aspects of the game little by little, as I am a parent and have an active work and family life and don't really have the time to commit to "winning" at this game.

About a week ago I was informed by snot that I might be a "troublemaker", that Loki would be watching me, and that I would be subject to regular visits by scouts and spies. I have nothing to hide, no nefarious schemes, so I said that was fine. No problem. Knock yourself out.

I was then informed that I better move all my cities or join Loki (or some Loki confed) or else I would likely be moved to the newb ring.

Now, the first time I saw Loki in Jurgor was two months ago when snot joined them, her 38th alliance move by my count.

Please understand, I play and support this game because it's chill and I find the complexity fun. In RL my days are spent taking orders from my boss, my woman, my offspring, etc. I'm not about to put my precious time and resources into a pastime that requires I take orders from anyone. I play and support this game because I find it fun. As soon as it's not fun, I'm going to take my interests elsewhere. As this is a game, I'm pretty sure that's true for all of us.

From what I can tell, SilverCrescentia felt the same. I don't know her backstory, but I do know that an active, independent player was threatened by Loki and simply chose to abandon a couple days ago rather than be forced to play a game she wasn't interested in playing. The same thing appears to be happening to coolpc, who I heard recently changed his name to LOKIkillingme. It's happening to the alliance Fam, the player fishergate (recently newb ringed), and, apparently, quite a few others.

I'm sure there's a better way for Loki's leadership to achieve their goals. Prove your dominance, show your strength to those who oppose you, but don't drive peaceful supporters of the game away or force them to play in a way they don't want to play...it's just ultimately not in your own best self interests.

So, Ten Kulch, there's your answer.

Neighborly Yours,

Mafro
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