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Topic ClosedRace unit/production balance

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AlDjotte View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Race unit/production balance
    Posted: 30 May 2010 at 16:27
Been bugging me for a while now that the balance of unit strength/cost for races and for their production isn't right.

I'll assume the balance between different types of units is correct (difficult to be sure) and that the extra cost of cavalry, etc. is worth it.
For each type of unit, there are always at least two races with the same cost to make their version of the unit. I'll call that the "base cost" of that unit type (tier 1 spear, etc). Assuming all base resources have the same value, if you compare the races this is what you get :

Orcs (spear specialists) :
* tier 1 and 2 spears cost 66% and 113% of base cost
* tier 1 and 2 ranged cost 123% and 95% of base cost (but pricey tier 1 ranged *doesn't* need arrows, which makes it available earlier)
* other units at "normal" price

Elves (ranged specialists) :
* tier 1 and 2 ranged cost 70% and 85% of base cost
* tier 2 infantry at 92% of base cost
* tier 2 cavalry at 96% base cost
* other units at "normal" price
No elven units need plate mail, the hardest resource needed for making troops

Dwarves (infantry specialists)
* tier 2 spears at 120% of base cost
* tier 1 and 2 infantry cost 121% and 110% of base cost
* other units at "normal" price

Human (cavalry specialists)
* tier 1 and 2 cavalry at 85% and 105% base cost
* other units at "normal" price

Conclusions - Humans and Orcs look quite balanced (tier 1 specialist unit cheaper, tier 2 more expensive). Elves have a distinct advantage in cost of their units (4 cheap units, none expensive) plus not needing to research plate and the stats of the plate-free units don' t look any worse than those of units with plate, while Dwarves are badly penalised with no cheap units at all.

Of course unit costs is not the only factor about building a big army, you also need economy, so lets look at the race balance there... As far as I can tell, the most valuable resources are Wood and Iron ('cos of large amounts used making weapons), and the least valuable is Clay, with Stone and Food being in between, hence :
* Humans - balanced resources
* Elves - extra Wood (yippee, key resource), less Clay (who cares ? 'cos least useful resource)
* Orcs - extra Clay (no benefit there) and less Wood (ouch, that hurts !)
* Dwarves - extra Stone (nice for defence, but not essential) and less Iron (ouch)

So which race is the winner - Elves again, and which races the losers, Dwarves (again) and Orcs.

So what do I suggest ?
* A review of the cost of units to give a better balance (those Elven true-shots should be more expensive, perhaps needing an extra set of arrows and the plate-free Elven units should be much weaker in defence, or Elves should start needing plate. Dwarves need an infantry unit which is cheaper, or if they are going to stay more expensive, their stats should be better to compensate)
* [this is probably for next restart of the game] Pair the resources differently, with Elves getting better Wood and worse Iron on their squares, Dwarves getting better Stone and worse Clay and Orcs better Clay and worse Stone (this would claw back a lot of the Elven advantage in Economy).

Just one final remark, and this looks like a mistake to me. Why does the Elven Swiftsteed, their tier 1 cavalry, which is the fastest military unit in the game, get to have the second highest resource carrying capacity (130) ? While the Dwarven packsman plods along only being able to carry 2/3 as much plunder (95) at a much slower speed ? Surely it should be the other way round !!! Or does someone have a bias toward Elves...
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waylander69 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2010 at 17:33
Sorry to say but wait till you need clay in the higher levels and then say its the least useful resource...all resources are needed for different types of buildings and in different amounts.

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WildBill View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2010 at 20:05
Thats an interesting theory, how ever I don't think the elves not needing plate armor is as much as an advantage as you think.  With the blacksmith split between building swords and chainmail, i have about a 2:1 plate armor to chainmail ratio.  I've also wondered about the packmens carrying capacity.  Just the name of the unit itself sounds like it should be able to carry a lot.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2010 at 03:00
Elves being short on clay is a huge drawback in the beginning, and needing all high-level equipment to come from the blacksmith without being able to have some of the production handled by the forge is a huge long-term drawback.  Every race has similar drawbacks which makes collaboration so important.

Regardless, the military unit balance cannot really be considered in isolation, and these other kinds of factors really bring game balance to a point where it is at least very unclear whether balance issues truly exist.

One thing worth noting is that just about everyone who has spoken about it states contentment with the race they chose.
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col0005 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2010 at 09:30
there has been a lot of talk about how elven units are overpowered but think about elven defence, they're forest dwelling and yet their two best units are bowen and cavlery which have a huge dissadvantage in forrest terrain. Hence it is best to ally yourself with the other reces to cover your shortcomings.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2010 at 09:57
Well horse can carry only so much stuff the speed is not relevant Dwarfs just have small ponies carry little stuff and move slowly with heavy Dwarf rider. (It is different thing should loots amount affect to speed.) Anyway Elven have weak infantry and also slow and inaccurate siege weaponry. So for later warfare for example  Dwarfs are better.
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