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Mandarins31 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Questions about Thieves
    Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 03:20

Hi all, i have many questions about Thieves. I will regroup all the questions to know exactly how Thieves work, as i may not be the only one who isn't totally clear with how to use thieves.

thanks in advance.



General questions:

1) what is the carrying capacity of a Thief? have simple Thief and advanced Thief the same carrying capacity?

2) what are exactly ALL the differences between simple and advanced thief?

3) can Thieves steal the weapons, in a city, that are in caravans and waiting to be bought on marketplace?


Runes and Thieves:

3) are Thieves  killed by the killing runes? (ex: Ward of Destruction).


4) can Thieves be afraided by terror runes? (ex: Ward of Insanity)


5) If they are killed of frightened by a rune, does the defender have a report to tell him who attacked him with Thieves?


Defending Thieves:

6) is there a difference of attacking power between simple and advanced Thieves?

7) does a Thief have the same attack and defence value? (unlike military units?)

8) when the Thieves passed thow the deffensive rune:
are all attacking Thieves blocked by simple and advanced defending Thieves? or are simple Thieves  blocked by simple Thieves, and advanced Thieves blocked by advanced Thieves?

9) when the attacking Thieves won against the defending ones:
- are the defending ones completly destroyed?
- are the attacking ones suffering casualties?


Visibility of the Defender:

10) is there a chance for the attacking Thieves to steal the ressources without being seen by the defender's Thieves? (without starting a fight) can the defender receive a repot to tell who stole him in this case?

11) if attacking Thieves killed all defending Thieves, does the defender have a chance to receive a report that tells who stole him?

12) if attacking Thieves were cought by defending ones, is there a chance that the defender doesn't receive a report that tells who tryed to steal him?

13) which factors can increase/decrease the visibility of the attacking Thieves for the defender? (difference of consulate level? difference of Thieves number/power? size of the defending city?

14) to sum up: the more attacking Thieves, the more chances to successfully steal a city without being known by the defender?


Edit: bonus question :p  : can we steal players who are in a NAP with us? in Confederation with us? can we steal our own alliance mates? can we steal ourself?









Edited by Mandarins31 - 17 Jan 2011 at 03:40
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The_Dude View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 03:54
I'll give it a go...
 
1) what is the carrying capacity of a Thief? have simple Thief and advanced Thief the same carrying capacity?
 
50 for both.

2) what are exactly ALL the differences between simple and advanced thief?
 
Speed.  advanced thieves can carry Advanced Goods and Gold.  Basic thieves are basic resources only.

3) can Thieves steal the weapons, in a city, that are in caravans and waiting to be bought on marketplace?
 
It appears that this might protect stuff from thieves.  But I am uncertain.


Runes and Thieves:

3) are Thieves  killed by the killing runes? (ex: Ward of Destruction).
 
yes.


4) can Thieves be afraided by terror runes? (ex: Ward of Insanity)
 
yes.


5) If they are killed of frightened by a rune, does the defender have a report to tell him who attacked him with Thieves?
 
No.  Only the # and type of unit.  Not the owner's ID.


Defending Thieves:

6) is there a difference of attacking power between simple and advanced Thieves?
 
yes.  Only attack with Advanced.  Defend with Basic.

7) does a Thief have the same attack and defence value? (unlike military units?)
 
No.

8) when the Thieves passed thow the deffensive rune:
are all attacking Thieves blocked by simple and advanced defending Thieves? or are simple Thieves  blocked by simple Thieves, and advanced Thieves blocked by advanced Thieves?
 
Both are treated the same by Runes.  A basic thief defends best against both.

9) when the attacking Thieves won against the defending ones:
- are the defending ones completly destroyed?
- are the attacking ones suffering casualties?
 
Defenders never are destroyed.  If attackers lose, 100% lose.  This will change in future Illy releases, I am told.


Visibility of the Defender:

10) is there a chance for the attacking Thieves to steal the ressources without being seen by the defender's Thieves? (without starting a fight) can the defender receive a repot to tell who stole him in this case?
 
Interrogation will give the Defender a chance of ID'ing the attacker.  A theft will always result in a Shamed Face Quartermaster report.

11) if attacking Thieves killed all defending Thieves, does the defenfer have a chance to receive a report that tells who stole him?
 
See 10 above.

12) if attacking Thieves were cought by defending ones, is there a chance that the defender doesn't receive a report that tells who tryed to steal him?
 
Yes.  Most of the time this is the result until you have large #'s of defenders.

13) which factors can increase/decrease the visibility of the attacking Thieves for the defender? (difference of consulate level? difference of Thieves number/power? size of the defending city?
 
All of the above plus distance between Attacker and Defender.  Not "visibility", but success.  A defending city will "see" incoming hostile diplos at 1/2 consulate level + 5 Range.  So a maximum of 15 square alert.  However, Incoming hostile diplos always appear Red on the map so if you stumble upon them (or know who your assailant is), you may see the hostiles inbound before you recieve the formal alert.
 
Edit: bonus question :p  : can we steal players who are in a NAP with us? in Confederation with us? can we steal our own alliance mates?
 
Yes.
 
can we steal ourself?
 
If possible, this is likely a game cheat and would be treated harshly by the GM.


Edited by The_Dude - 17 Jan 2011 at 05:48
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Mr. Ubiquitous Feral View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 03:58
I suppose that a friend in your alliance may agree to sending thieves back and forth?  Then you will see exactly what happens and no real harm done?  Does that sound right?
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some random guy View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 04:02
It appears that I misread the question:

No 3a is yes.  The only way to protect against thieves is with other thieves, runes, or the vault.

Edited by some random guy - 17 Jan 2011 at 10:25
Soon, very soon, my name will become synonymous with chicken alfredo.... mmm.... chicken alfredo....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 04:15
1) Can't remember the exact numbers, but I know they're not the same, I think maybe 50 for basic theif and 25 for advanced theif.

2) Advanced thieves have twice as much upkeep, are slightly faster than basic thieves. Importantly advanced theives require saddle to train, a highly sought after resource. Basic theives can only steal basic resources and books and beer. Advanced theives can steal all advanced resources (horses, cattle, spears, bows, swords, leather, chain, plate, not seige blocks).

3) Yes. If that happens you will get a message telling you your trade has been cancelled.

4) Yes. The only units that are safe from killing runes are scouts and spies.

5) No. Nor with any other kind of rune.

6) Yes. I understand that advanced theives have a greater defensive power than basic theives... BUT basic thieves provide a better defence for their upkeep than advanced theives (more cost effective).

7) No. But exact numbers are unknown. At the moment it is assumed that all races have the same strength of diplomatic units.

8) All types of theives in a city will contribute towards defence.

9) Defending thieves never die. In all diplomatic missions though, either ALL your attacking units survive, or ALL your attacking units die.

10) Yes attackers can steal resources without being detected. The defender will just receive a report saying something like "your quartermaster reports there are some resources missing".

11) Defenders don't die.

12) Yes, the defender can capture the attackers who might then prefer to die rather than giving away who sent them. The defender can also capture/kill attackers after they complete a mission (though not for theft missions obviously).

13) A city with high theif defence has: A large number of theives at home, a high proportion of basic theives, a SMALL city, a high consulate level.

Obviously keeping your city small just to provide theif defence is pretty self defeating though, that rule is just to protect small players from big guys with 20,000 thieves.

You can't steal from yourself, alliance or confederation... everyone else is fair game though (though some more fair than others) Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 04:24
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

3) can Thieves steal the weapons, in a city, that are in caravans and waiting to be bought on marketplace?
 
It appears that this might protect stuff from thieves.  But I am uncertain.

8) when the Thieves passed thow the deffensive rune:
are all attacking Thieves blocked by simple and advanced defending Thieves? or are simple Thieves  blocked by simple Thieves, and advanced Thieves blocked by advanced Thieves?
 
Both are treated the same by Runes.
 
Edit: bonus question :p  : can we steal players who are in a NAP with us? in Confederation with us? can we steal our own alliance mates?
 
Yes.
 
can we steal ourself?
 
If possible, this is likely a game cheat and would be treated harshly by the GM.


@TD - you got 3) wrong, you misunderstood 8) the bonus question we are both wrong, you can ALSO steal from confederation members, but you cannot steal from your own alliance or youself. I'm not sure about 1).
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 04:53
3) wrong, you misunderstood
As I said...I was uncertain.  I have not yet tested this.
8) the bonus question we are both wrong, you can ALSO steal from confederation members
I think that is what I said.  You can diplo anyone.  Diplo'ing yourself is considered a "cheat" by the GMs...Running up score, etc.  I recall a couple of players being lifetime banned for self-sabo'ing to speed building queues.
 
I'm not sure about 1).

I'm 99% certain.  50 carrying capacity for both adv and bas.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 04:57
Hey, M31...I like your post.  I like your inqueries.  You've been thinking about Illy.  I enjoy these detailed discussions.  I get to help...and, as others show, I continue to learn.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 06:12
1) what is the carrying capacity of a Thief? have simple Thief and advanced Thief the same carrying capacity?

20 for Basic 50 for Advanced according to Arcanum Illyria
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2011 at 06:21
Also there is the question of Rank score for thief attacking.
I have come to the conclusion that a successful thief attack gives you a rank increase equal to the gold upkeep of the thieves that are in the town that you are stealing from. I however lack the information to figure out the increase of rank when you are attacked and you catch the thieves or you send thieves and they all die. When I have sent thieves to a person and the attack failed their rank score increased by 30 points, three different times with varying amounts of thieves. So if anyone knows the answer speak!
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