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Sindicate v. Assorted Elgea based Alliances

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=9457
Printed Date: 23 Sep 2018 at 19:07
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Sindicate v. Assorted Elgea based Alliances
Posted By: Sauron
Subject: Sindicate v. Assorted Elgea based Alliances
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 04:02


As of 26 of November this is a rough estimate of the positioning of cities/forces from both sides, with SIN/300/TA2IN/LOKI being green, and AESIR/BANE/ECROW/EE/HELL/MCROW/STORM/SV/TEA/TROUT/UNBOW/VALOR/WOT being red. Does not include possible sympathizers such as IRON/TCOL .etc



Replies:
Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 26 Nov 2017 at 06:48
So THAT's who is fighting in this big war I occasionally hear about. Thanks!

As a contribution to see how things play out, here are the key stats at the moment on those alliances listed above (if others join, I'm happy to add them as well). It will be interesting what the map and stats look like once the dust settles....

Elgean Alliances
  Pop Mem Towns Land
AESIR 11,860,661 80 659 6,777
UNBOW 8,195,613 54 477 6,507
EE 7,795,159 60 444 4,877
MCROW 6,378,971 58 417 4,460
STORM 5,081,590 30 272 3,136
HELL 3,051,553 31 195 2,056
ECROW 2,306,781 16 128 1,441
TEA 751,038 8 55 798
BANE 1,611,454 14 96 743
TROUT 945,969 10 66 572
VALOR 226,869 23 68 137
SV 21,000 3 10 26
WOT 12,227 2 6 6
48,238,885 389 2,893 31,536

SINdicate
  Pop Mem Towns Land
LOKI 4,807,099 53 362 3,285
SIN 2,326,022 21 166 2,608
TA2IN 1,551,989 16 129 2,139
300 968,737 7 63 1,187
9,653,847 97 720 9,219

Have fun storming the castle!


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 07:31
I was curious how much things could change in 48 hours...here's what the data says, broken down by Current Stats, Numeric Delta, and Percentage Delta.

Current Stats

Elgean Alliances
  Pop Mem Towns Land
Aesir 11,841,343 80 659 6,782
Unbow 8,204,552 54 478 6,517
EE 7,783,154 60 442 4,888
mCrow 6,327,072 57 412 4,500
Storm 5,065,076 30 271 3,136
Hell 3,056,814 31 196 2,080
eCrow 2,307,735 16 128 1,441
TEA 751,714 8 55 798
Bane 1,612,414 14 96 743
TROUT 946,240 10 66 584
Valor 228,331 22 67 137
SV 21,024 3 10 26
WOT 12,227 2 6 6
48,157,696 387 2,886 31,638

SINdicate
  Pop Mem Towns Land
LOKI 4,798,687 50 355 3,299
SIN 2,323,936 21 166 2,608
TA2IN 1,490,000 16 124 2,038
300 969,880 7 63 1,201
9,582,503 94 708 9,146

Numeric Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Pop Mem Towns Land
Aesir -19,318 0 0 5
Unbow 8,939 0 1 10
EE -12,005 0 -2 11
mCrow -51,899 -1 -5 40
Storm -16,514 0 -1 0
Hell 5,261 0 1 24
eCrow 954 0 0 0
TEA 676 0 0 0
Bane 960 0 0 0
TROUT 271 0 0 12
Valor 1,462 -1 -1 0
SV 24 0 0 0
WOT 0 0 0 0
-81,189 -2 -7 102

SINdicate
  Pop Mem Towns Land
LOKI -8,412 -3 -7 14
SIN -2,086 0 0 0
TA2IN -61,989 0 -5 -101
300 1,143 0 0 14
-71,344 -3 -12 -73

Percentage Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Pop Mem Towns Land
Aesir 0% 0% 0% 0%
Unbow 0% 0% 0% 0%
EE 0% 0% 0% 0%
mCrow -1% -2% -1% 1%
Storm 0% 0% 0% 0%
Hell 0% 0% 1% 1%
eCrow 0% 0% 0% 0%
TEA 0% 0% 0% 0%
Bane 0% 0% 0% 0%
TROUT 0% 0% 0% 2%
Valor 1% -4% -1% 0%
SV 0% 0% 0% 0%
WOT 0% 0% 0% 0%
0% 0% -1% 0%

SINdicate
  Pop Mem Towns Land
LOKI 0% -6% -2% 0%
SIN 0% 0% 0% 0%
TA2IN -4% 0% -4% -5%
300 0% 0% 0% 1%
-1% -3% -2% -1%

This post is dedicated to all tha peoples what be officin' out there, reconcilin', copy-filin', spreadsheet-balancizin'… all that sh*t. Peace to all y'all.


Posted By: Sauron
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 07:59
Cool, losses were probably due to the recent Unbow campaign in the southwest. Would be interesting to see the change in attack and defense stats of the alliances, but no doubt those would be inflated due to NPC and faction attacks.


Posted By: Hucbold
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 16:50


Posted By: Hucbold
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 16:51
A slightly different view - Sin and confeds (red); Aesir and confeds (green). Not all (on either side) are involved but at least this can be objectively replicated. Taken fron today's town file so still includes some Ta2in towns razed earlier today.


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 18:00
Aesir should win decisively, then. Wars in Illyriad are purely a function of population. That's because population is a good proxy for army size. We all know that the biggest armies win Illyriad wars. Peripheral factors like determination, martial prowess, organization, camaraderie, ferocity are really just myths. MMO urban legends foisted by delusional bloggers on a gullible muggle community. Right?

I mean really, can anyone name an Illyriad war in which a much smaller alliance with significantly fewer troops defeated a much larger alliance with bigger armies?

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Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Hucbold
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 19:30
I'm not quite ready to accept your surrender yet, Ten. You need to discount the totals for inactives which your people believe are nearly all of us and allow for gold farms outside the alliances and the importation of prestige from the real world for sale. There are also gold farms hidden in each others alliances - so the sindicate may well be fuelled by quiet membership in our allies alliances. We're looking for them but witch-hunting does not sit well on the goodie's shoulders. However I do agree that genuine popultion is a very good proxy for army size and this war is on a big enough scale for analysts to work out who has gold hidden where.


Posted By: Hucbold
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 19:33
Afterthought: Here's an example
http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Player/Growth/318587" rel="nofollow - https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Player/Growth/318587

6bn gold in over the last two months funds a lot of troops


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2017 at 23:38
Originally posted by Hucbold Hucbold wrote:

I'm not quite ready to accept your surrender yet, Ten. You need to discount the totals for inactives which your people believe are nearly all of us and allow for gold farms outside the alliances and the importation of prestige from the real world for sale. There are also gold farms hidden in each others alliances - so the sindicate may well be fuelled by quiet membership in our allies alliances. We're looking for them but witch-hunting does not sit well on the goodie's shoulders. However I do agree that genuine popultion is a very good proxy for army size and this war is on a big enough scale for analysts to work out who has gold hidden where.

Hucbold, you can continue to bet on gold, permasats, population, roster bulk. I will continue to place my bet on determination, martial prowess, organization, camaraderie, ferocity. Maps and charts don't faze me. It is always my assumption that my opponents have an infinite gold treasury and infinite supplies. Wealth didn't save SHARK, VIC, Unbow in Newlands. Wealth didn't save vCrow in Farshards. Wealth didn't save EE in Gremont. Wealth will not save you now.

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Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Tink XX
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2017 at 05:42
Originally posted by Hucbold Hucbold wrote:

I'm not quite ready to accept your surrender yet, Ten.

Careful with that ego balloon!

Originally posted by Hucbold Hucbold wrote:

You need to discount the totals for inactives which your people believe are nearly all of us and allow for gold farms outside the alliances and the importation of prestige from the real world for sale.


Every alliance we have fought has tried to show how they really are the disadvantaged ones, and padded some imaginary advantages on us. We attacked SHARK too soon. We dared to attack vCrow's Farshards citadel after the tourney, when they weren't at their absolute maximum for troops. Now you're next in line, padding the east Elgean end of the map with some confed members that aren't really taking part in the war, and padding our alliances with imaginary accounts that you're witch-hunting.

Sorry, nope! Your mega-confed is fighting a handful of SINdicate outposts that are 2000 squares or more away from the mother ship. Now that you're starting to gain an upper hand on one edge of the map, go ahead and inflate your opponents, to make yourself look a little more... ahem... victorious. 

That said, I am glad you are having fun! It shows through all the gloating talk about the razes on the forums and GC. Because admit it - you actually take pleasure in fighting us Star


Posted By: Hucbold
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2017 at 21:30
Originally posted by Tink XX Tink XX wrote:

Originally posted by Hucbold Hucbold wrote:

I'm not quite ready to accept your surrender yet, Ten.

Careful with that ego balloon!

Originally posted by Hucbold Hucbold wrote:

You need to discount the totals for inactives which your people believe are nearly all of us and allow for gold farms outside the alliances and the importation of prestige from the real world for sale.


Every alliance we have fought has tried to show how they really are the disadvantaged ones, and padded some imaginary advantages on us. We attacked SHARK too soon. We dared to attack vCrow's Farshards citadel after the tourney, when they weren't at their absolute maximum for troops. Now you're next in line, padding the east Elgean end of the map with some confed members that aren't really taking part in the war, and padding our alliances with imaginary accounts that you're witch-hunting.

Sorry, nope! Your mega-confed is fighting a handful of SINdicate outposts that are 2000 squares or more away from the mother ship. Now that you're starting to gain an upper hand on one edge of the map, go ahead and inflate your opponents, to make yourself look a little more... ahem... victorious. 

That said, I am glad you are having fun! It shows through all the gloating talk about the razes on the forums and GC. Because admit it - you actually take pleasure in fighting us Star

Wow. You really are paranoid.

My point was that the imbalance is not quite as big as it appears for the reasons I stated.  I'm not actually enjoying the war - but I did enjoy the siege on Gragnog because it shouldn't have worked and quirks of fate tickle my sense of humour. That siege should not have lasted an hour.


Posted By: Tink XX
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2017 at 22:22
Originally posted by Hucbold Hucbold wrote:

Wow. You really are paranoid.

Are you a qualified medical professional or an acquaintance of Sigmund Freud or something?

You've just casually added what looks roughly like 1/5th of Elgean cities to the "red side" of the map claiming that it would make things look a little more even, and now you accuse me of being paranoid for pointing that out!

I don't even...


Posted By: The Reaper
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2017 at 23:36
I'm trying to figure out why Larn is all red, because last I checked my alliance was not at war. Please make sure you provide accuracy in your propaganda.

-Drax The Destroyer


Posted By: Hucbold
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 01:18
Read the description

Sin + confeds

Aesir + confeds

NOT ALL ARE INVOLVED

clearly stated

... and in fact others not confederated with either side might be involved.


Posted By: The Reaper
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 01:29
Oh, I can read. And indeed I read your comment of not all involved. Still. Keep us out of your proganda, it's not appreciated. The individual alliances duking it out are all that needs to be shown here. Implicating other alliances is just kicking hornets nests. End of story.

-Drax The Destroyer


Posted By: Bartleby
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 01:44
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

 
I will continue to place my bet

Where can we place our bets? I've got some cattle to wager!


Posted By: Tink XX
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 05:46
Originally posted by Hucbold Hucbold wrote:

Not all (on either side) are involved but at least this can be objectively replicated.

So what was wrong with Sauron's map? You can objectively replicate his map! He plainly took a snapshot of all the alliances that are currently at war, and that picture shows SINdicate being vastly outnumbered in Elgea.

Sorry that I'm not buying your "objectivity". Kinda hard to, when it's coming from the person who resorts to name-calling and personal attacks at every turn. Perhaps your intent was not to embellish, but it resulted in a pretty significant distortion of the war map. A picture is worth a thousand words, disclaimers are just a fine print underneath it.

When you consider only the alliances that are actually doing something the map becomes smaller on both sides. Quite a few of Loki members in Elgea are brand new players, and aren't ready to participate in war. A few of the alliances that are formally at war are being hardly active. If you pare this map down to only active players who engage in meaningful military action, it will shrink on your confed's side considerably.

Still your confed's advantage in Elgea is quite clear. More players, more cities, more resources. Will it help you? Well, clearly I've made my bets. Dovie'andi se tovya sagain.


Posted By: Tink XX
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 05:48
Originally posted by Bartleby Bartleby wrote:

Where can we place our bets? I've got some cattle to wager!


Bart, the bets in this game are cities and armies. You place them on the map where you see fit.


Posted By: viperone
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 09:02
As a bystander to the party, so to speak it always slays me when one side accuses the other of name calling and personal attacks.  Name calling and personal attacks are a two way street with both sides driving on the same street.  The don't do as I do, but do as I say philosphy, only holds hot air.  GC trolling is part of every war in Illyriad and will continue to be so.  To quote "I always tell the truth, even when I lie" end quote.  I do think both sides are having a bit of pixel fun. Carry on but don't expect everyone to believe the hype.


Posted By: Snagglepuss
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 10:44
Well you're not a bystander anymore Viper :)


Posted By: Dessembrae
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2017 at 14:14
Originally posted by Snagglepuss Snagglepuss wrote:

Well you're not a bystander anymore Viper :)

Didn't realize you were in charge of the Hello Kitty organisation, we ll make sure to contact you when we need our litter box cleaned. 


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2017 at 05:10
Here's how things have changed after six days, broken down by Current Stats, Numeric Delta, and Percentage Delta. All deltas are comparisons against the stats posted initially. If any alliances have joined or left the war, please let me know and I'll update accordingly.

Current Stats

Elgean Alliances
  Pop Mem Towns Land
Aesir 11,761,347 79 653 6,752
Unbow 8,215,213 54 480 6,537
EE 7,806,302 62 448 4,919
mCrow 6,297,821 57 409 4,467
Storm 5,067,519 30 271 3,136
Hell 3,066,238 30 194 2,090
eCrow 2,290,295 15 126 1,429
TEA 884,694 9 65 869
Bane 1,615,200 14 96 744
TROUT 730,194 9 54 443
Valor 229,422 21 65 146
SV 21,024 3 10 26
WOT 2,316 1 2 2
47,987,585 384 2,873 31,560

SINdicate
  Pop Mem Towns Land
LOKI 4,595,811 47 338 3,123
SIN 2,324,221 21 165 2,603
TA2IN 1,475,580 16 124 2,012
300 974,766 7 63 1,223
9,370,378 91 690 8,961

Numeric Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Pop Mem Towns Land
Aesir -99,314 -1 -6 -25
Unbow 19,600 0 3 30
EE 11,143 2 4 42
mCrow -81,150 -1 -8 7
Storm -14,071 0 -1 0
Hell 14,685 -1 -1 34
eCrow -16,486 -1 -2 -12
TEA 133,656 1 10 71
Bane 3,746 0 0 1
TROUT -215,775 -1 -12 -129
Valor 2,553 -2 -3 9
SV 24 0 0 0
WOT -9,911 -1 -4 -4
-251,300 -5 -20 24

SINdicate
  Pop Mem Towns Land
LOKI -211,288 -6 -24 -162
SIN -1,801 0 -1 -5
TA2IN -76,409 0 -5 -127
300 6,029 0 0 36
-283,469 -6 -30 -258

Percentage Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Pop Mem Towns Land
Aesir -1% -1% -1% 0%
Unbow 0% 0% 1% 0%
EE 0% 3% 1% 1%
mCrow -1% -2% -2% 0%
Storm 0% 0% 0% 0%
Hell 0% -3% -1% 2%
eCrow -1% -6% -2% -1%
TEA 18% 13% 18% 9%
Bane 0% 0% 0% 0%
TROUT -23% -10% -18% -23%
Valor 1% -9% -4% 7%
SV 0% 0% 0% 0%
WOT -81% -50% -67% -67%
-1% -1% -1% 0%

SINdicate
  Pop Mem Towns Land
LOKI -4% -11% -7% -5%
SIN 0% 0% -1% 0%
TA2IN -5% 0% -4% -6%
300 1% 0% 0% 3%
-3% -6% -4% -3%



Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 06:21
Here's how things have changed after ten days, broken down by Current Stats, Numeric Delta, and Percentage Delta. All deltas are comparisons against the stats posted initially. If any alliances have joined or left the war, please let me know and I'll update accordingly.

Current Stats

Elgean Alliances
  Pop Mem Towns Land
Aesir 11,725,303 79 649 6,800
Unbow 8,683,847 56 502 6,931
EE 7,548,590 60 436 4,807
mCrow 6,826,900 60 437 4,843
Storm 5,299,030 33 291 3,391
Hell 3,075,239 29 193 2,100
eCrow 1,884,489 13 106 1,207
TEA 634,034 7 46 617
Bane 1,617,262 14 96 746
TROUT 728,128 9 54 443
Valor 235,519 22 67 153
SV 20,984 3 10 26
WOT 2,316 1 2 2
48,281,641 386 2,889 32,066

SINdicate
  Pop Mem Towns Land
LOKI 4,772,964 48 348 3,311
SIN 2,696,746 24 188 2,744
TA2IN 1,466,471 16 124 2,001
300 914,215 7 59 1,135
9,850,396 95 719 9,191

Numeric Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Pop Mem Towns Land
Aesir -135,358 -1 -10 23
Unbow 488,234 2 25 424
EE -246,569 0 -8 -70
mCrow 447,929 2 20 383
Storm 217,440 3 19 255
Hell 23,686 -2 -2 44
eCrow -422,292 -3 -22 -234
TEA -117,004 -1 -9 -181
Bane 5,808 0 0 3
TROUT -217,841 -1 -12 -129
Valor 8,650 -1 -1 16
SV -16 0 0 0
WOT -9,911 -1 -4 -4
42,756 -3 -4 530

SINdicate
  Pop Mem Towns Land
LOKI -34,135 -5 -14 26
SIN 370,724 3 22 136
TA2IN -85,518 0 -5 -138
300 -54,522 0 -4 -52
196,549 -2 -1 -28

Percentage Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Pop Mem Towns Land
Aesir -1% -1% -2% 0%
Unbow 6% 4% 5% 7%
EE -3% 0% -2% -1%
mCrow 7% 3% 5% 9%
Storm 4% 10% 7% 8%
Hell 1% -6% -1% 2%
eCrow -18% -19% -17% -16%
TEA -16% -13% -16% -23%
Bane 0% 0% 0% 0%
TROUT -23% -10% -18% -23%
Valor 4% -4% -1% 12%
SV 0% 0% 0% 0%
WOT -81% -50% -67% -67%
0% -1% 0% 2%

SINdicate
  Pop Mem Towns Land
LOKI -1% -9% -4% 1%
SIN 16% 14% 13% 5%
TA2IN -6% 0% -4% -6%
300 -6% 0% -6% -4%
2% -2% 0% 0%


Posted By: DeliciousJosh
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 08:12
Looks like a few changes going on :) the population and town data is interesting as well as the sov. Fun to follow


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PublicRelations
HumanResources


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 13:14
It would be more interesting to see the changes in attack, defense, diplomacy. That would demonstrate who has been fighting.

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Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 19:30
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

It would be more interesting to see the changes in attack, defense, diplomacy. That would demonstrate who has been fighting.

I agree. Smile

Here's a new data set including additional data points from the alliance leaderboard page. Given I don't have the historic values for this data, today's data will represent the new baseline for future comparisons that I will periodically post.

Current Stats

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir 6,796 79 649 11,730,953 67,487,588 4,659,770 1,906,591 12,375,681
Unbow 6,924 56 502 8,694,929 23,073,559 1,000,943 823,490 13,419,362
EE 4,793 59 435 7,561,739 46,998,700 4,367,713 2,113,335 13,504,697
mCrow 4,842 60 437 6,828,189 64,597,034 2,995,521 1,387,500 6,438,464
Storm 3,391 33 291 5,299,341 35,654,793 2,830,773 1,811,255 11,106,742
Hell 2,100 29 193 3,078,157 11,507,134 1,818,797 152,523 2,137,541
eCrow 1,207 13 106 1,884,520 39,676,646 3,089,581 329,396 9,902,535
TEA 617 7 46 634,177 764,685 28,149 17,791 733
Bane 746 14 96 1,617,336 3,877,813 480,862 30,698 596,949
TROUT 443 9 54 728,625 1,522,518 265,220 4,915 313,380
Valor 151 22 67 235,752 659,029 271,273 21,345 7,524
SV 26 3 10 20,984 14,556,024 2,849,606 228,821 42,069
WOT 2 1 2 2,316 25,419,879 2,773,639 852,608 6,264,454
32,038 385 2,888 48,317,018 335,795,402 27,431,847 9,680,268 76,110,131

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 3,312 48 349 4,777,607 22,448,760 1,884,672 1,837,154 6,501,461
SIN 2,736 24 188 2,695,321 57,933,653 2,704,555 2,045,239 41,062,879
TA2IN 2,002 16 125 1,467,800 5,947,576 471,085 864,462 6,773,055
300 1,135 7 59 914,233 6,129,184 165,472 120,559 4,577,446
9,185 95 721 9,854,961 92,459,173 5,225,784 4,867,414 58,914,841



Posted By: DeliciousJosh
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 19:38
Numbeerrrsss



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PublicRelations
HumanResources


Posted By: Garth
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 19:51
TA2IN has declared on HoMa, so those numbers should be added as well.

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Garthen


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2017 at 20:26
Originally posted by Garth Garth wrote:

TA2IN has declared on HoMa, so those numbers should be added as well.

I can't seem to edit my previous post to add HoMa, so here's a new post including HoMa.

Current Stats

Elgean Alliances
Current Stats

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir 6,796 79 649 11,730,953 67,487,588 4,659,770 1,906,591 12,375,681
Unbow 6,924 56 502 8,694,929 23,073,559 1,000,943 823,490 13,419,362
EE 4,793 59 435 7,561,739 46,998,700 4,367,713 2,113,335 13,504,697
mCrow 4,842 60 437 6,828,189 64,597,034 2,995,521 1,387,500 6,438,464
Storm 3,391 33 291 5,299,341 35,654,793 2,830,773 1,811,255 11,106,742
Hell 2,100 29 193 3,078,157 11,507,134 1,818,797 152,523 2,137,541
HoMa 1,521 7 124 2,058,444 1,204,555 25,560 4,914 19,660
eCrow 1,207 13 106 1,884,520 39,676,646 3,089,581 329,396 9,902,535
TEA 617 7 46 634,177 764,685 28,149 17,791 733
Bane 746 14 96 1,617,336 3,877,813 480,862 30,698 596,949
TROUT 443 9 54 728,625 1,522,518 265,220 4,915 313,380
Valor 151 22 67 235,752 659,029 271,273 21,345 7,524
SV 26 3 10 20,984 14,556,024 2,849,606 228,821 42,069
WOT 2 1 2 2,316 25,419,879 2,773,639 852,608 6,264,454
33,559 392 3,012 50,375,462 336,999,957 27,457,407 9,685,182 76,129,791

SINdicate
 LandMemTownsPopAtkBuildDiploDef
LOKI3,312483494,777,60722,448,7601,884,6721,837,1546,501,461
SIN2,736241882,695,32157,933,6532,704,5552,045,23941,062,879
TA2IN2,002161251,467,8005,947,576471,085864,4626,773,055
3001,135759914,2336,129,184165,472120,5594,577,446
9,185957219,854,96192,459,1735,225,7844,867,41458,914,841


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2017 at 22:32
And here's what a day looks like, including Atk, Def, and Diplo scores.


Current Stats

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir 6,710 79 644 11,685,402 67,545,517 4,663,108 1,911,069 12,379,682
Unbow 6,930 56 503 8,699,642 23,084,474 1,004,688 823,520 13,419,702
EE 4,969 60 446 7,845,198 47,039,664 4,374,465 2,113,763 13,517,899
mCrow 4,843 60 437 6,835,600 64,612,664 2,997,909 1,392,714 6,440,852
Storm 3,365 32 285 5,273,748 35,660,561 2,832,049 1,815,855 11,107,003
Hell 2,106 29 194 3,080,838 11,548,029 1,820,434 157,190 2,137,541
HoMa 1,388 6 112 1,876,275 1,298,394 26,113 5,144 19,660
eCrow 1,207 13 106 1,885,223 39,676,646 3,089,762 329,396 9,902,538
TEA 617 7 46 634,607 764,687 28,581 17,791 853
Bane 746 14 96 1,617,743 3,878,093 481,257 30,698 596,949
TROUT 443 9 54 728,757 1,522,518 265,318 4,915 313,380
Valor 155 22 67 238,098 669,081 272,537 21,345 7,524
SV 26 3 10 20,984 14,556,024 2,849,606 228,821 42,069
WOT 2 1 2 2,316 25,419,879 2,773,639 852,608 6,264,454
33,507 391 3,002 50,424,431 337,276,231 27,479,466 9,704,829 76,150,106

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 3,284 47 343 4,749,059 22,466,278 1,889,412 1,837,154 6,502,442
SIN 2,721 24 187 2,706,606 57,961,452 2,708,664 2,048,119 41,177,806
TA2IN 2,019 16 125 1,473,976 5,976,961 472,627 866,476 6,777,006
300 1,120 7 58 892,492 6,129,577 166,074 120,699 4,577,452
9,144 94 713 9,822,133 92,534,268 5,236,777 4,872,448 59,034,706

Numeric Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -86 0 -5 -45,551 57,929 3,338 4,478 4,001
Unbow 6 0 1 4,713 10,915 3,745 30 340
EE 176 1 11 283,459 40,964 6,752 428 13,202
mCrow 1 0 0 7,411 15,630 2,388 5,214 2,388
Storm -26 -1 -6 -25,593 5,768 1,276 4,600 261
Hell 6 0 1 2,681 40,895 1,637 4,667 0
HoMa -133 -1 -12 -182,169 93,839 553 230 0
eCrow 0 0 0 703 0 181 0 3
TEA 0 0 0 430 2 432 0 120
Bane 0 0 0 407 280 395 0 0
TROUT 0 0 0 132 0 98 0 0
Valor 4 0 0 2,346 10,052 1,264 0 0
SV 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
WOT 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
-52 -1 -10 48,969 276,274 22,059 19,647 20,315

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI -28 -1 -6 -28,548 17,518 4,740 0 981
SIN -15 0 -1 11,285 27,799 4,109 2,880 114,927
TA2IN 17 0 0 6,176 29,385 1,542 2,014 3,951
300 -15 0 -1 -21,741 393 602 140 6
-41 -1 -8 -32,828 75,095 10,993 5,034 119,865

Percentage Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -1% 0% -1% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
Unbow 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
EE 4% 2% 3% 4% 0% 0% 0% 0%
mCrow 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
Storm -1% -3% -2% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
Hell 0% 0% 1% 0% 0% 0% 3% 0%
HoMa -9% -14% -10% -9% 8% 2% 5% 0%
eCrow 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
TEA 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 2% 0% 16%
Bane 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
TROUT 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
Valor 3% 0% 0% 1% 2% 0% 0% 0%
SV 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
WOT 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI -1% -2% -2% -1% 0% 0% 0% 0%
SIN -1% 0% -1% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
TA2IN 1% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
300 -1% 0% -2% -2% 0% 0% 0% 0%
0% -1% -1% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 18 Dec 2017 at 18:52
Day 12. Any commentary from those with insights is welcome. 

Current Stats

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir 6,619 77 636 11,441,100 68,943,240 4,703,980 2,025,697 13,729,935
Unbow 6,562 56 494 8,416,508 23,298,153 1,047,176 836,200 13,450,531
EE 4,998 60 448 7,785,889 47,325,499 4,426,158 2,138,738 13,520,868
mCrow 4,979 63 459 7,239,235 64,975,580 3,033,894 1,406,066 6,453,932
Storm 3,219 29 274 5,056,693 35,842,558 2,845,461 1,832,442 11,109,033
Hell 2,087 27 190 3,074,175 11,876,241 1,836,750 160,365 2,152,577
HoMa 1,506 7 126 2,254,965 1,933,550 32,170 5,164 79,666
eCrow 1,074 11 93 1,699,030 39,676,646 3,090,952 329,466 9,912,870
TEA 616 7 46 637,739 910,055 34,061 18,191 853
Bane 745 13 94 1,623,259 3,884,977 484,134 30,698 596,949
TROUT 443 9 54 729,032 1,531,047 266,317 4,915 313,380
Valor 188 20 71 267,888 726,922 281,670 21,385 9,888
SV 26 3 10 21,026 14,556,103 2,849,769 228,821 42,069
WOT 2 1 2 2,316 25,419,879 2,773,639 852,608 6,264,454
33,064 383 2,997 50,248,855 340,900,450 27,706,131 9,890,756 77,637,005

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 3,467 44 341 4,732,125 23,189,608 1,936,570 1,916,869 6,563,748
SIN 2,773 23 177 2,690,012 58,416,677 2,727,742 2,063,390 41,863,765
TA2IN 1,953 14 113 1,352,380 8,161,967 487,606 878,998 8,344,899
300 1,147 7 62 880,756 6,166,810 175,603 128,192 4,658,829
9,340 88 693 9,655,273 95,935,062 5,327,521 4,987,449 61,431,241

Numeric Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -177 -2 -13 -289,853 1,455,652 44,210 119,106 1,354,254
Unbow -362 0 -8 -278,421 224,594 46,233 12,710 31,169
EE 205 1 13 224,150 326,799 58,445 25,403 16,171
mCrow 137 3 22 411,046 378,546 38,373 18,566 15,468
Storm -172 -4 -17 -242,648 187,765 14,688 21,187 2,291
Hell -13 -2 -3 -3,982 369,107 17,953 7,842 15,036
HoMa -15 0 2 196,521 728,995 6,610 250 60,006
eCrow -133 -2 -13 -185,490 0 1,371 70 10,335
TEA -1 0 0 3,562 145,370 5,912 400 120
Bane -1 -1 -2 5,923 7,164 3,272 0 0
TROUT 0 0 0 407 8,529 1,097 0 0
Valor 37 -2 4 32,136 67,893 10,397 40 2,364
SV 0 0 0 42 79 163 0 0
WOT 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
-495 -9 -15 -126,607 3,900,493 248,724 205,574 1,507,214

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 155 -4 -8 -45,482 740,848 51,898 79,715 62,287
SIN 37 -1 -11 -5,309 483,024 23,187 18,151 800,886
TA2IN -49 -2 -12 -115,420 2,214,391 16,521 14,536 1,571,844
300 12 0 3 -33,477 37,626 10,131 7,633 81,383
155 -7 -28 -199,688 3,475,889 101,737 120,035 2,516,400

Percentage Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -3% -3% -2% -2% 2% 1% 6% 11%
Unbow -5% 0% -2% -3% 1% 5% 2% 0%
EE 4% 2% 3% 3% 1% 1% 1% 0%
mCrow 3% 5% 5% 6% 1% 1% 1% 0%
Storm -5% -12% -6% -5% 1% 1% 1% 0%
Hell -1% -7% -2% 0% 3% 1% 5% 1%
HoMa -1% 0% 2% 10% 61% 26% 5% 305%
eCrow -11% -15% -12% -10% 0% 0% 0% 0%
TEA 0% 0% 0% 1% 19% 21% 2% 16%
Bane 0% -7% -2% 0% 0% 1% 0% 0%
TROUT 0% 0% 0% 0% 1% 0% 0% 0%
Valor 25% -9% 6% 14% 10% 4% 0% 31%
SV 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
WOT 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
-1% -2% 0% 0% 1% 1% 2% 2%

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 5% -8% -2% -1% 3% 3% 4% 1%
SIN 1% -4% -6% 0% 1% 1% 1% 2%
TA2IN -2% -13% -10% -8% 37% 4% 2% 23%
300 1% 0% 5% -4% 1% 6% 6% 2%
2% -7% -4% -2% 4% 2% 2% 4%


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 22:49
Day 21. Any commentary from those with insights is welcome. 

Current Stats

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir 6,587 77 638 11,370,679 69,218,490 4,729,550 2,115,405 13,981,065
Unbow 6,550 56 494 8,419,655 23,472,974 1,073,871 836,234 13,461,736
EE 5,117 60 454 7,811,675 47,567,996 4,465,149 2,147,568 13,567,946
mCrow 5,039 63 463 7,310,515 65,333,764 3,061,327 1,435,010 6,521,760
Storm 3,301 30 282 5,197,077 35,948,028 2,854,436 1,896,457 11,142,541
Hell 2,149 27 191 3,076,758 11,966,947 1,848,956 167,808 2,165,560
HoMa 1,567 8 137 2,338,324 2,173,587 38,120 5,164 91,076
eCrow 904 10 81 1,580,129 39,723,815 3,091,810 329,566 9,913,369
TEA 660 8 52 676,462 917,109 36,689 18,191 934
Bane 734 13 94 1,603,499 3,906,357 487,162 30,698 600,089
TROUT 443 9 54 729,898 1,535,009 266,876 4,915 313,380
Valor 196 21 68 268,794 743,421 289,465 21,385 10,875
SV 25 3 9 9,199 14,556,103 2,849,862 228,821 42,939
WOT 2 1 2 2,316 25,419,879 2,773,639 852,608 6,264,454
33,274 386 3,019 50,394,980 342,483,479 27,866,912 10,089,830 78,077,724

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 3,534 45 351 4,746,691 23,573,041 1,966,235 1,956,485 6,591,080
SIN 2,867 24 184 2,703,740 58,652,443 2,741,437 2,095,602 41,900,649
TA2IN 1,925 14 113 1,360,859 8,237,090 500,821 893,954 8,389,728
300 1,148 7 63 887,422 6,214,513 180,769 154,637 4,725,608
9,474 90 711 9,698,712 96,677,087 5,389,262 5,100,678 61,607,065

Numeric Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -209 -2 -11 -360,274 1,730,902 69,780 208,814 1,605,384
Unbow -374 0 -8 -275,274 399,415 72,928 12,744 42,374
EE 324 1 19 249,936 569,296 97,436 34,233 63,249
mCrow 197 3 26 482,326 736,730 65,806 47,510 83,296
Storm -90 -3 -9 -102,264 293,235 23,663 85,202 35,799
Hell 49 -2 -2 -1,399 459,813 30,159 15,285 28,019
HoMa 46 1 13 279,880 969,032 12,560 250 71,416
eCrow -303 -3 -25 -304,391 47,169 2,229 170 10,834
TEA 43 1 6 42,285 152,424 8,540 400 201
Bane -12 -1 -2 -13,837 28,544 6,300 0 3,140
TROUT 0 0 0 1,273 12,491 1,656 0 0
Valor 45 -1 1 33,042 84,392 18,192 40 3,351
SV -1 0 -1 -11,785 79 256 0 870
WOT 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
-285 -6 7 19,518 5,483,522 409,505 404,648 1,947,933

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 222 -3 2 -30,916 1,124,281 81,563 119,331 89,619
SIN 131 0 -4 8,419 718,790 36,882 50,363 837,770
TA2IN -77 -2 -12 -106,941 2,289,514 29,736 29,492 1,616,673
300 13 0 4 -26,811 85,329 15,297 34,078 148,162
289 -5 -10 -156,249 4,217,914 163,478 233,264 2,692,224

Percentage Delta

Elgean Alliances
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -3% -3% -2% -3% 3% 1% 11% 13%
Unbow -5% 0% -2% -3% 2% 7% 2% 0%
EE 7% 2% 4% 3% 1% 2% 2% 0%
mCrow 4% 5% 6% 7% 1% 2% 3% 1%
Storm -3% -9% -3% -2% 1% 1% 5% 0%
Hell 2% -7% -1% 0% 4% 2% 10% 1%
HoMa 3% 14% 10% 14% 80% 49% 5% 363%
eCrow -25% -23% -24% -16% 0% 0% 0% 0%
TEA 7% 14% 13% 7% 20% 30% 2% 27%
Bane -2% -7% -2% -1% 1% 1% 0% 1%
TROUT 0% 0% 0% 0% 1% 1% 0% 0%
Valor 30% -5% 1% 14% 13% 7% 0% 45%
SV -4% 0% -10% -56% 0% 0% 0% 2%
WOT 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
-1% -2% 0% 0% 2% 1% 4% 3%

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 7% -6% 1% -1% 5% 4% 6% 1%
SIN 5% 0% -2% 0% 1% 1% 2% 2%
TA2IN -4% -13% -10% -7% 38% 6% 3% 24%
300 1% 0% 7% -3% 1% 9% 28% 3%
3% -5% -1% -2% 5% 3% 5% 5%


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 20:12
Day 24. While VALOR has announced their surrender, I haven't seen an acceptance of that surrender from the SINdicate. Given it only takes one willing participant to have a war, I will be including VALOR in the Grand Alliance side until it is confirmed they are no longer being targeted.

Also, I am renaming what I was previously calling "Elgean Alliances" to "Grand Alliance", as that seems to be a name that has stuck on both sides. Also, in the absence of a broadly accepted name, I propose that this conflict be referred to as the Grand Sin war...seems somehow appropriate. ;)

Current Stats

Grand Alliance
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir 6,344 75 615 10,812,600 69,248,746 4,738,186 2,158,971 14,239,547
Unbow 6,535 56 493 8,406,326 23,516,488 1,081,271 839,727 13,477,821
EE 5,313 60 469 8,177,870 47,702,809 4,478,696 2,148,370 13,629,477
mCrow 5,044 63 465 7,299,088 65,397,758 3,069,332 1,451,910 6,525,191
Storm 3,248 30 283 5,142,133 35,975,607 2,858,203 1,901,387 11,143,069
Hell 2,170 28 198 3,129,462 11,974,141 1,853,109 181,308 2,165,563
HoMa 1,054 5 97 1,520,226 2,184,596 39,255 5,164 91,076
eCrow 904 10 81 1,581,185 39,723,815 3,092,041 329,566 9,913,798
TEA 660 8 52 678,189 917,109 37,695 18,191 934
Bane 734 13 94 1,605,157 3,906,886 488,044 30,698 600,089
TROUT 445 9 54 730,833 1,537,902 267,124 4,915 313,380
Valor 201 21 68 273,050 751,977 292,794 21,385 10,875
SV 22 3 7 8,110 14,556,103 2,850,052 228,821 44,218
WOT 2 1 2 2,316 25,419,879 2,773,639 852,608 6,264,454
32,676 382 2,978 49,366,545 342,813,816 27,919,441 10,173,021 78,419,492

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 3,519 42 328 4,639,129 23,871,757 1,973,550 1,957,549 6,865,547
SIN 2,848 23 180 2,699,835 58,803,127 2,745,605 2,098,859 41,914,023
TA2IN 1,820 13 106 1,310,331 8,425,638 503,067 896,181 8,396,841
300 1,154 7 63 888,403 6,306,256 181,853 163,931 4,732,805
9,341 85 677 9,537,698 97,406,778 5,404,075 5,116,520 61,909,216

Numeric Delta

Grand Alliance
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -452 -4 -34 -918,353 1,761,158 78,416 252,380 1,863,866
Unbow -389 0 -9 -288,603 442,929 80,328 16,237 58,459
EE 520 1 34 616,131 704,109 110,983 35,035 124,780
mCrow 202 3 28 470,899 800,724 73,811 64,410 86,727
Storm -143 -3 -8 -157,208 320,814 27,430 90,132 36,327
Hell 70 -1 5 51,305 467,007 34,312 28,785 28,022
HoMa -467 -2 -27 -538,218 980,041 13,695 250 71,416
eCrow -303 -3 -25 -303,335 47,169 2,460 170 11,263
TEA 43 1 6 44,012 152,424 9,546 400 201
Bane -12 -1 -2 -12,179 29,073 7,182 0 3,140
TROUT 2 0 0 2,208 15,384 1,904 0 0
Valor 50 -1 1 37,298 92,948 21,521 40 3,351
SV -4 0 -3 -12,874 79 446 0 2,149
WOT 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
-883 -10 -34 -1,008,917 5,813,859 462,034 487,839 2,289,701

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 207 -6 -21 -138,478 1,422,997 88,878 120,395 364,086
SIN 112 -1 -8 4,514 869,474 41,050 53,620 851,144
TA2IN -182 -3 -19 -157,469 2,478,062 31,982 31,719 1,623,786
300 19 0 4 -25,830 177,072 16,381 43,372 155,359
156 -10 -44 -317,263 4,947,605 178,291 249,106 2,994,375

Percentage Delta

Grand Alliance
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -7% -5% -5% -8% 3% 2% 13% 15%
Unbow -6% 0% -2% -3% 2% 8% 2% 0%
EE 11% 2% 8% 8% 1% 3% 2% 1%
mCrow 4% 5% 6% 7% 1% 2% 5% 1%
Storm -4% -9% -3% -3% 1% 1% 5% 0%
Hell 3% -3% 3% 2% 4% 2% 19% 1%
HoMa -31% -29% -22% -26% 81% 54% 5% 363%
eCrow -25% -23% -24% -16% 0% 0% 0% 0%
TEA 7% 14% 13% 7% 20% 34% 2% 27%
Bane -2% -7% -2% -1% 1% 1% 0% 1%
TROUT 0% 0% 0% 0% 1% 1% 0% 0%
Valor 33% -5% 1% 16% 14% 8% 0% 45%
SV -15% 0% -30% -61% 0% 0% 0% 5%
WOT 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
-3% -3% -1% -2% 2% 2% 5% 3%

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 6% -13% -6% -3% 6% 5% 7% 6%
SIN 4% -4% -4% 0% 2% 2% 3% 2%
TA2IN -9% -19% -15% -11% 42% 7% 4% 24%
300 2% 0% 7% -3% 3% 10% 36% 3%
2% -11% -6% -3% 5% 3% 5% 5%


Posted By: Sauron
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 21:55
Thanks for providing these stats Mafro. And yes, peace with Valor is accepted, there is no longer a status of war between ta2in and valor.




Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 22:26
Hucbold removed midav from Aesir as he knew i was inbound to siege. Now, he will probably come up with something like, he was inactive or similar, the fact of the matter is, he cannot meet my forces head on and booting midav was the only way he could attempt to save face. 

The counter argument to his "inactive" reasoning would be, by letting me siege gives the free pot shots to take at my troops relatively safely with only losing the town of an "inactive" player. 

The fact that aesir is not able to repel a siege or even meet my troops head on, in their heartland region ragallon/windlost is very telling. This move by hucbold has clearly demonstrated to me that aesir and everyone I am at war with have 0 chance of defeating my troops head on. 

Thanks for the complete and utter capitulation. 


Posted By: Neytiri
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 22:55
Are you looking for feedback on this method of scoring a military conflict?
If so: Have you considered weighting the scores?  I'm not sure a high defense score means you are winning, for example, it just means you are getting attacked.
Like, maybe a ratio of defense score to troops lost would be a more accurate means of scoring your performance on the receiving end of a battle?


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"It is well that their bodies know the heat and the cold; it will make them strong warriors and mothers." - Absaroke elder (from Edward S. Curtis's book 'The North American Indian')


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 23:17
Originally posted by Neytiri Neytiri wrote:

Are you looking for feedback on this method of scoring a military conflict?
If so: Have you considered weighting the scores?  I'm not sure a high defense score means you are winning, for example, it just means you are getting attacked.
Like, maybe a ratio of defense score to troops lost would be a more accurate means of scoring your performance on the receiving end of a battle?

I agree these stats are not the ideal way to score a conflict, but I don't know of a better way. If you know a way to quickly and easily collect better data (like troops lost), please post it.


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 23:19
Originally posted by Sauron Sauron wrote:

Thanks for providing these stats Mafro. And yes, peace with Valor is accepted, there is no longer a status of war between ta2in and valor.



Is there a log of these diplomatic status changes anywhere?


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2017 at 23:24
The best method is probably just public analysis by the commanders, assuming they are willing to share information. Every major battle tells a story. Stats can never fully encompass what really happens on the battlefield.

-------------
Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Sauron
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 00:44
Originally posted by Mafro Mafro wrote:

Originally posted by Sauron Sauron wrote:

Thanks for providing these stats Mafro. And yes, peace with Valor is accepted, there is no longer a status of war between ta2in and valor.



Is there a log of these diplomatic status changes anywhere?


don't think so, should appear in gc and ac, but does not seem to show up on the diplomatic stats page


Posted By: Hucbold
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 02:44
Originally posted by Malek Malek wrote:

Hucbold removed midav from Aesir as he knew i was inbound to siege. Now, he will probably come up with something like, he was inactive or similar, the fact of the matter is, he cannot meet my forces head on and booting midav was the only way he could attempt to save face. 

The counter argument to his "inactive" reasoning would be, by letting me siege gives the free pot shots to take at my troops relatively safely with only losing the town of an "inactive" player. 

The fact that aesir is not able to repel a siege or even meet my troops head on, in their heartland region ragallon/windlost is very telling. This move by hucbold has clearly demonstrated to me that aesir and everyone I am at war with have 0 chance of defeating my troops head on. 

Thanks for the complete and utter capitulation. 

Wow

Counter arguments to arguments that have not been put. Whatever next?

Thanks for letting me know that there is an incoming siege - let me know the arrival time and town maybe.

Siegeing towns with no active defence, in this case no troops and no player, prooves nothing. Indeed the player has never been a military player. When your siege arrives, I'll be celebrating New Year, like a normal person.
 


Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 03:07
Well, you see hucbold, you have a penchant for outright lying. So I know the excuses/lies that you come up with, hence making pre-empting the arguments you would normally come up with. 
Wont matter if i told you what town would be sieged or not, it is impossible for your hopeless alliance to break it. 

Dont kid me you know there is a siege on the way, as why would you have kicked the player now when we have been withing striking range of your towns for weeks. 
Face it, you cant repel any forces that we throw at your alliance. I am going to wipe out your entire ragallon windlost operation with little to no resistance. 


Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 08:20
Originally posted by Hucbold Hucbold wrote:


Siegeing towns with no active defence, in this case no troops and no player, prooves nothing. Indeed the player has never been a military player. When your siege arrives, I'll be celebrating New Year, like a normal person.
 

Basically your entire alliance. Got it. Maybe you should have though of all the non military players in your alliance before you brought lyken sent him to attack my siege on mcrow, declared on my alliance and made all these inflammatory comments in the forums. Now, none of you can leave, everyone will be hammered mercilessly. You are probably the most inept and dopey foe I have encountered in this game. Thanks for being my MVP. 


Posted By: Hucbold
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 10:34
Originally posted by Malek Malek wrote:

Well, you see hucbold, you have a penchant for outright lying. So I know the excuses/lies that you come up with, hence making pre-empting the arguments you would normally come up with. 
Wont matter if i told you what town would be sieged or not, it is impossible for your hopeless alliance to break it. 

Dont kid me you know there is a siege on the way, as why would you have kicked the player now when we have been withing striking range of your towns for weeks. 
Face it, you cant repel any forces that we throw at your alliance. I am going to wipe out your entire ragallon windlost operation with little to no resistance. 

Well my prediction about the siege you have not yet sent is that it will head for  https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/480/171" rel="nofollow - https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/480/171

If I'm right, you should check for spies.



Posted By: Dessembrae
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 13:24
Originally posted by Mafro Mafro wrote:

Originally posted by Sauron Sauron wrote:

Thanks for providing these stats Mafro. And yes, peace with Valor is accepted, there is no longer a status of war between ta2in and valor.



Is there a log of these diplomatic status changes anywhere?

https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/HeraldDiplomatic


Posted By: Fiona
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 15:04
Its funny, when your side hits small accounts, razes small towns that had no troops, because they were either inactive or an actual newb, (in the newb ring) and I holler. You all tell me to get over it, its war, no one is safe blah blah. So basically you are saying its ok to do that.
Now that it is happening to your side, you are saying it proves nothing? That is what I have been saying from the start.
I have to say, Hucbold, you are a walking contradiction. Can you even keep track of the things you say?
I have been at war with many people and several alliances, and I recall the people I warred with in the past having more honor and integrity. Guess that is gone now.

Fiona


Posted By: Hucbold
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 16:01
Originally posted by Fiona Fiona wrote:

Its funny, when your side hits small accounts, razes small towns that had no troops, because they were either inactive or an actual newb, (in the newb ring) and I holler. You all tell me to get over it, its war, no one is safe blah blah. So basically you are saying its ok to do that.
Now that it is happening to your side, you are saying it proves nothing? That is what I have been saying from the start.
I have to say, Hucbold, you are a walking contradiction. Can you even keep track of the things you say?
I have been at war with many people and several alliances, and I recall the people I warred with in the past having more honor and integrity. Guess that is gone now.

Fiona

Please be specific - who are we talking about? I'm happy to respond to specific allegations but ...

So what newb did we attack?

Who said 'Its war etc'


Posted By: Fiona
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 18:05
I don't want to waste anymore time on you Huc. You have implied you have spies. Ask them for reports.

Cheers
Fiona


Posted By: Hucbold
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2017 at 22:39
Originally posted by Fiona Fiona wrote:

I don't want to waste anymore time on you Huc. You have implied you have spies. Ask them for reports.

Cheers
Fiona

So you throw out an accusation and when asked for clarification you refuse. In other words the accusation is rubbish.


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2018 at 07:19
Day 25. Here are updated stats, with VALOR having surrendered and exited the conflict.

Current Stats

Grand Alliance
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir 6,303 75 613 10,776,639 69,316,067 4,741,729 2,170,991 14,248,379
Unbow 6,531 56 492 8,393,163 23,524,298 1,083,716 840,635 13,621,656
EE 5,318 60 467 8,163,171 47,720,716 4,484,388 2,151,750 13,629,541
mCrow 5,025 63 464 7,278,571 65,498,052 3,074,330 1,469,528 6,525,642
Storm 3,248 30 282 5,136,801 35,994,028 2,859,000 1,908,063 11,144,278
Hell 2,167 28 197 3,131,193 11,975,919 1,855,067 181,308 2,167,181
HoMa 1,053 5 96 1,520,303 2,184,596 39,976 5,164 91,076
eCrow 904 10 81 1,581,722 39,723,815 3,092,171 329,566 9,913,798
TEA 660 8 52 678,440 917,109 37,979 18,251 934
Bane 734 13 94 1,600,799 3,908,156 488,318 30,698 600,089
TROUT 443 9 54 731,261 1,538,630 267,302 4,915 313,380
SV 22 3 7 8,110 14,556,103 2,850,052 228,821 44,218
WOT 2 1 2 2,316 25,419,879 2,773,639 852,608 6,264,454
32,410 361 2,901 49,002,489 342,277,368 27,647,667 10,192,298 78,564,626

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 3,553 42 327 4,642,352 24,012,032 1,979,719 1,959,219 6,867,756
SIN 2,836 22 177 2,682,443 58,806,893 2,747,465 2,102,661 41,925,992
TA2IN 1,832 13 106 1,313,358 8,465,541 503,957 896,920 8,414,783
300 1,149 7 63 889,595 6,975,855 183,080 167,369 4,750,975
9,370 84 673 9,527,748 98,260,321 5,414,221 5,126,169 61,959,506

Numeric Delta

Grand Alliance
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -493 -4 -36 -954,314 1,828,479 81,959 264,400 1,872,698
Unbow -393 0 -10 -301,766 450,739 82,773 17,145 202,294
EE 525 1 32 601,432 722,016 116,675 38,415 124,844
mCrow 183 3 27 450,382 901,018 78,809 82,028 87,178
Storm -143 -3 -9 -162,540 339,235 28,227 96,808 37,536
Hell 67 -1 4 53,036 468,785 36,270 28,785 29,640
HoMa -468 -2 -28 -538,141 980,041 14,416 250 71,416
eCrow -303 -3 -25 -302,798 47,169 2,590 170 11,263
TEA 43 1 6 44,263 152,424 9,830 460 201
Bane -12 -1 -2 -16,537 30,343 7,456 0 3,140
TROUT 0 0 0 2,636 16,112 2,082 0 0
SV -4 0 -3 -12,874 79 446 0 2,149
WOT 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
-998 -9 -44 -1,137,221 5,936,440 461,533 528,461 2,442,359

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 241 -6 -22 -135,255 1,563,272 95,047 122,065 366,295
SIN 100 -2 -11 -12,878 873,240 42,910 57,422 863,113
TA2IN -170 -3 -19 -154,442 2,517,965 32,872 32,458 1,641,728
300 14 0 4 -24,638 846,671 17,608 46,810 173,529
185 -11 -48 -327,213 5,801,148 188,437 258,755 3,044,665

Percentage Delta

Grand Alliance
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -7% -5% -6% -8% 3% 2% 14% 15%
Unbow -6% 0% -2% -3% 2% 8% 2% 2%
EE 11% 2% 7% 8% 2% 3% 2% 1%
mCrow 4% 5% 6% 7% 1% 3% 6% 1%
Storm -4% -9% -3% -3% 1% 1% 5% 0%
Hell 3% -3% 2% 2% 4% 2% 19% 1%
HoMa -31% -29% -23% -26% 81% 56% 5% 363%
eCrow -25% -23% -24% -16% 0% 0% 0% 0%
TEA 7% 14% 13% 7% 20% 35% 3% 27%
Bane -2% -7% -2% -1% 1% 2% 0% 1%
TROUT 0% 0% 0% 0% 1% 1% 0% 0%
SV -15% 0% -30% -61% 0% 0% 0% 5%
WOT 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
-3% -8% -4% -3% 2% 1% 5% 3%

SINdicate
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
LOKI 7% -13% -6% -3% 7% 5% 7% 6%
SIN 4% -8% -6% 0% 2% 2% 3% 2%
TA2IN -8% -19% -15% -11% 42% 7% 4% 24%
300 1% 0% 7% -3% 14% 11% 39% 4%
2% -12% -7% -3% 6% 4% 5% 5%


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2018 at 07:27
Day 25 Correction - fixing a spreadsheet error in the Numeric Delta stats. Please ignore my previous post.

Current Stats

Grand Alliance
 LandMemTownsPopAtkBuildDiploDef
Aesir6,3037561310,776,63969,316,0674,741,7292,170,99114,248,379
Unbow6,531564928,393,16323,524,2981,083,716840,63513,621,656
EE5,318604678,163,17147,720,7164,484,3882,151,75013,629,541
mCrow5,025634647,278,57165,498,0523,074,3301,469,5286,525,642
Storm3,248302825,136,80135,994,0282,859,0001,908,06311,144,278
Hell2,167281973,131,19311,975,9191,855,067181,3082,167,181
HoMa1,0535961,520,3032,184,59639,9765,16491,076
eCrow90410811,581,72239,723,8153,092,171329,5669,913,798
TEA660852678,440917,10937,97918,251934
Bane73413941,600,7993,908,156488,31830,698600,089
TROUT443954731,2611,538,630267,3024,915313,380
SV22378,11014,556,1032,850,052228,82144,218
WOT2122,31625,419,8792,773,639852,6086,264,454
32,4103612,90149,002,489342,277,36827,647,66710,192,29878,564,626

SINdicate
 LandMemTownsPopAtkBuildDiploDef
LOKI3,553423274,642,35224,012,0321,979,7191,959,2196,867,756
SIN2,836221772,682,44358,806,8932,747,4652,102,66141,925,992
TA2IN1,832131061,313,3588,465,541503,957896,9208,414,783
3001,149763889,5956,975,855183,080167,3694,750,975
9,370846739,527,74898,260,3215,414,2215,126,16961,959,506

Numeric Delta

Grand Alliance
  Land Mem Towns Pop Atk Build Diplo Def
Aesir -493 -4 -36 -954,314 1,828,479 81,959 264,400 1,872,698
Unbow -393 0 -10 -301,766 450,739 82,773 17,145 202,294
EE 525 1 32 601,432 722,016 116,675 38,415 124,844
mCrow 183 3 27 450,382 901,018 78,809 82,028 87,178
Storm -143 -3 -9 -162,540 339,235 28,227 96,808 37,536
Hell 67 -1 4 53,036 468,785 36,270 28,785 29,640
HoMa -468 -2 -28 -538,141 980,041 14,416 250 71,416
eCrow -303 -3 -25 -302,798 47,169 2,590 170 11,263
TEA 43 1 6 44,263 152,424 9,830 460 201
Bane -12 -1 -2 -16,537 30,343 7,456 0 3,140
TROUT 0 0 0 2,636 16,112 2,082 0 0
SV -4 0 -3 -12,874 79 446 0 2,149
WOT 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
-1,149 -31 -111 -1,372,973 5,277,411 190,260 507,116 2,434,835

SINdicate
 LandMemTownsPopAtkBuildDiploDef
LOKI241-6-22-135,2551,563,27295,047122,065366,295
SIN100-2-11-12,878873,24042,91057,422863,113
TA2IN-170-3-19-154,4422,517,96532,87232,4581,641,728
3001404-24,638846,67117,60846,810173,529
185-11-48-327,2135,801,148188,437258,7553,044,665

Percentage Delta

Grand Alliance
 LandMemTownsPopAtkBuildDiploDef
Aesir-7%-5%-6%-8%3%2%14%15%
Unbow-6%0%-2%-3%2%8%2%2%
EE11%2%7%8%2%3%2%1%
mCrow4%5%6%7%1%3%6%1%
Storm-4%-9%-3%-3%1%1%5%0%
Hell3%-3%2%2%4%2%19%1%
HoMa-31%-29%-23%-26%81%56%5%363%
eCrow-25%-23%-24%-16%0%0%0%0%
TEA7%14%13%7%20%35%3%27%
Bane-2%-7%-2%-1%1%2%0%1%
TROUT0%0%0%0%1%1%0%0%
SV-15%0%-30%-61%0%0%0%5%
WOT0%0%0%0%0%0%0%0%
-3%-8%-4%-3%2%1%5%3%

SINdicate
 LandMemTownsPopAtkBuildDiploDef
LOKI7%-13%-6%-3%7%5%7%6%
SIN4%-8%-6%0%2%2%3%2%
TA2IN-8%-19%-15%-11%42%7%4%24%
3001%0%7%-3%14%11%39%4%
2%-12%-7%-3%6%4%5%5%


Posted By: Neytiri
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2018 at 16:09
I don't know of a better way.  I just thought I would weigh in with something productive.  I applaud your efforts to somehow score the conflict, actually.  I like it better than the traditional way of comparing cities lost.

How are you getting the charts you're posting here?
Is there a way to dump them into a spreadsheet?




-------------
"It is well that their bodies know the heat and the cold; it will make them strong warriors and mothers." - Absaroke elder (from Edward S. Curtis's book 'The North American Indian')


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2018 at 19:24
Originally posted by Neytiri Neytiri wrote:

How are you getting the charts you're posting here?
Is there a way to dump them into a spreadsheet?

Steps to recreating these stats:
1. Go to the Alliance Leaderboard page and copy all stats related to a given alliance.
2. Go to a pre-defined spreadsheet and paste that data.
3. Repeat this for all alliances on each side.
4. Build formulas in the spreadsheet to sum stats for each side.
6. Using the initial data as the baseline, create an identical section in your spreadsheet for current stats.
7. Build formulas to calculate the numeric and percentage deltas between current and baseline.

Ah heck, I'll just move my process from Excel to a Google Sheet. Here's a link to it:

http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing

Oooo...maybe I'll just post the link to this sheet instead of pasting and reformatting it here! Noice.


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2018 at 21:35
Day 27. I've added SAINT as a newcomer to the Grand Alliance after BayNight's successful siege on 300's Ten Kulch. If anyone knows of additional participants in the war, please let me know.

Also, I'm getting 500 Internal Server Error messages when I try to post updated stats on the forums. It appears to be related to the size of the tables. That said, I'm going to just paste the link to the Google Sheet here for the time being, and going forward I will archive the previous "current stats" on a separate tab to allow for a view of historic data for those that enjoy it. Also, if you like the data in spreadsheet form, hit that "Thanks" link above or drop me a line in game so I know to keep doing it. :)

Here's the link...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats

If anyone knows the workaround that will allow for pasting large tables from Google Sheets into this buggy forum, lemme know! :)


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 02:37
Day 28.

It is notable that 300 has four fewer cities than last update - a decrease of 6.5% of their cities in roughly 24 hours. Presumably at least some of those are in exodus. I've seen sieges by BayNights and Hucbold in GC, and multiple Legendary Battles reported outside 300's cities. Insights welcome!

TEA also lost a member and six cities, an 8.8% decrease in their towns.

I've also noticed that WoT has been inactive for weeks, and SV for days. If they disband, I will obviously remove them from the stats.

Lots happening!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats


Posted By: Jadefae
Date Posted: 04 Jan 2018 at 20:14
WoT joined unbow


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2018 at 07:36
Day 29.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats


Posted By: digiosox
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 05:43
I was thinking about the stats.

Population, Build, Diplo, magic, tech, quest, and trade is irrelevant so maybe get rid of them so the report seems less confusing.

percentage delta isn't much help when the starting numbers are so different.

Attack and Defense numbers are correlated as they are fighting each other (assuming the participants are not engaged in anything big with a third party).

For final stats:
Maybe look at the ratio of attack growth to defense growth between the opposing sides.
Change in number of players and cities to both sides. (the true indicator)



Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2018 at 06:54
Day 30.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 04:39
Day 31. Major losses taken by the Grand Alliance, with a drop of 6 members, 80 towns, and over 1.2 million population since yesterday's update. That's a loss of 2.7% of their towns and 2.4% of their population in roughly 24 hours. Nearly all these losses are confined to Storm, HoMa, and to a lesser extent TEA, and seem to be driven by players exiting those alliances.

Meanwhile, 300 appears to be suffering notable losses of it's own (albeit at a much smaller scale), with a drop of 3 towns (5% of total) and 15k population (2%) over the same time period.

Insights welcome!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 05:17
Originally posted by Mafro Mafro wrote:

Meanwhile, 300 appears to be suffering notable losses of it's own (albeit at a much smaller scale), with a drop of 3 towns (5% of total) and 15k population (2%) over the same time period.

That was due to a repositioning of our mobile battle group.

Several weeks ago, we made a 14 city incursion into southern Elgea. Seven players sent two weaponized cities each. After considerable resistance on the Tallimar beachhead (codename: Omaha), we broke an enemy siege against Tinkinator, then scored a legendary raze against EE, and drove off another two 20000+ pop cities. We repositioned our forward cities for another strike, but unfortunately EE removed two 20000+ pop cities from the jungles, and shifted a smaller town to block a mountain adjacent to a fourth legendary (Nordic N0.07).

At that point, the shock had apparently worn off. We were deep in enemy territory with over 200 hostile cities in striking distance. Unbow besieged two forward positions. My support outpost of Thermopylae was destroyed. Kopis was extracted under heavy fire; Lake Black strolled out unscathed. However, these battles gave us time to reposition the Turalia primary cluster (codename: Waterloo) of the mobile battle group. The fleet is now regrouping in friendly territory, preparing for our next set of battles.

It was a very exciting adventure. Easily the most Illyriad fun I've in years, probably since the SIN-Unbow war. It has been a long time since anyone fought toe-to-toe with us, and I haven't lost a war wagon since the SIN-TUF war. I was particularly interested to see the enemy attempt a settlement directly adjacent to Kopis, apparently in an effort to provide siege support. It was challenging trying to keep those forward positions alive so far out from the main battle group, which was in turn 2000 squares from our homeland in Fellandire.

We chased off 4 legendary EE cities, razed 1 legendary, and lost a war wagon, before retreating in a barrage of a couple million enemy troops. We invaded to fight EE, and encountered an old enemy (Unbow) and new enemies. The fighting was non-stop, there probably wasn't a day on the front lines that I didn't have dozens of incoming from all ranges. Most of them little elites, but still exciting stuff. I'm sure it will become a Warmongering in Illyriad article when I have spare time. I really hope our adversaries enjoyed the clashes as much as we did. In the heat of battle, besieged on both sides, I told my team, "Days like this are why I play the game."

What does that mean statistically? Hard to say. When we weaponize cities, we reposition and risk them in a way that's completely different than permanent cities. At our roster size, that will cause a lot of population drops and city moves (as a percentage, anyway), but that's typically the start or finish of fighting, not really permanent asset growth or destruction. It more indicates that we are deploying forces or bringing them back, since weaponized cities (a.k.a. war wagons) are really more like complex soldiers or battle machines, which are themselves carriers of other units. You might view it more as the U.S. moving a fleet around the oceans, completely with carriers, destroyers, aircraft, reconnaissance, support ships, supply tenders.

-------------
Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 05:22
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:


That was due to a repositioning of our mobile battle group.

Fascinating insights, Ten Kulch...thanks for sharing!


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 05:27
Originally posted by Mafro Mafro wrote:

Major losses taken by the Grand Alliance, with a drop of 6 members, 80 towns, and over 1.2 million population since yesterday's update. That's a loss of 2.7% of their towns and 2.4% of their population in roughly 24 hours. Nearly all these losses are confined to Storm, HoMa, and to a lesser extent TEA, and seem to be driven by players exiting those alliances.

I just wanted to comment on this particular point. You can't really infer anything like that on a day-to-day basis. During a war, sometimes accounts hop between alliances within a coalition. It's the moving average that's probably relevant.

Even so, many Grand Alliance rosters have loads of inactive accounts. If they kick a dead account, or a non-fighter sneaks out the back door, that probably means nothing for the overall war effort. There's no real statistic that tracks the movement of core players. By the numbers, a core fighter surrendering looks the same as a gold farm fleeing to a training alliance, but strategically the effect is a magnitude apart.

If someone had a script to track who actually left or joined, that would make it much easier to provide insightful commentary.

-------------
Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 05:42
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:


I just wanted to comment on this particular point. You can't really infer anything like that on a day-to-day basis. 

There was no inference in my post, just a reading of stats. When I say "losses taken by the Grand Alliance", I'm literally just referring to the decrease in the sum of Members, Towns, and Population across all the alliances that are being tracked as a part of the GA.

I don't mean to imply that those cities were destroyed, those players driven to surrender, or anything of the like...I have no insights into the actions or reasons behind the stats, just the stats themselves. Thankfully, sometimes those that do have insights share them. ;)

Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

During a war, sometimes accounts hop between alliances within a coalition. It's the moving average that's probably relevant.

I agree, and only called these losses out because there was no gain in any other alliances being tracked as part of GA to offset the losses. It's entirely possible these players are continuing the fight from another alliance or from no alliance...or not.


Posted By: Elmindra
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 15:09
Another thing to note is that even with a war ongoing there is a bit of action from all sides in the tournament that just started.  I would expect some of the alliance movement is due to regional localities taking or losing members in order to strategically hold or compete for certain tournament sqrs.

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Posted By: Shellarose
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 00:45
Just my opinion, but I was at a loss when I started back since my divorce.  I haven't played durin it, (had a sitter)...but yet, since I have been back, this "Sindicate, 300, Ta2in, and Loki have been bullying people and instigatin problems and this game has never been the same.  The "Older Illy" is no more a place to come to play to enjoy.  I guess, one would suppose and say, "It's a war game" ...sure, I will not disagree with that, but this game offers so much more than that...well at least I thought so.  Now, it seems nothing but a bully game which I do not want to take part in anymore.  I will be abandoning my account shortly and I feel no remorse except for the wonderful friends that I have met online over the years.  For those who would like to keep in touch, just send me a mail and I can see what I can do.  As for our enemies in red and also their allies in yellow who have been helping them on the side, please do not take this as a win on your side, but rather an evilness you have ensured in the land of Illyriad.  It is indeed a game now which I will spread the word how horrible it is to be involved in such playings.  Cheating, bullying, lying, bragging, boasting and showing off for those who do not know what is goin on is nothing but a frontal facial facade shown as a backstabbing bendover to Illyriad.

You razed one of my cities in elgea, you chased us out of the broken lands I exodused 12 cities, but yet, what did the DICKtate do?  Brag, boast how horrible we were, laugh and point fingers, yet, besides the successful cities that have been razed, seems that they run off under duress successfully and hide when things were gettin too tough for them.  So they rethink their strategy to gain a better momentum at their loss of initiative in the first place into Elgea.  Now they bring their cities up into Elgea to claim victories of their same bullyin, cheating and bragging in which many people will just leave due to it ....not because of the war, but simply because of what the DICKtate represent.  So do not take this as a win, take it as just chasing people away from the game....you claim these cities as your gain, but in reality it's just a matter of time before people realize who they are playin with.  Good people seem to have left the game and all that is left will be your own egos.

I will end with this, Illyriad WAS a good game to play.  Now, it's just a time waster.  Am sure, the devs will continue on with this charade in order to gain in their endeavor, but good people will be scarce and the vets will no longer be participatin to claim it is a decent game.  Fightin for a good cause, yes, but when you have more evil than good in the game, of course the evil will prevail. (of course again, they will brag about that as well) It's only a matter of time. I will be looking for another game to play, a game that will not give me a reason to quit hopefully.  I give all good tidings to my friends in this game and wish them good luck in their game.  

It's just a sad game now

Shella
aka Rose and Quin




Posted By: NORDIC1
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 01:11
It has come time for me to also go my way, I have lost interest in this game for over a year now Illyriad was an escape for me as well to have fun but now it is nothing more than a trap. This game has become a job and is slowly turning into Evony. Soon bots will control it all as long as you pay for the prestige. 

I bid you all a farewell I will be Abandoning my accounts by end of this week 


Posted By: Sauron
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 01:22
rip

yall were good opponents, even if you were just lieken and huck's meatsheilds. hope you guys will actually abandon ingame instead of handing passwords to your friends to add to their growing list of permasats and multi accounts


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 01:27
Shella, tell us how you really feel. Don't hold back!



I suppose we shouldn't mention the courageous things that you have done, like slandering my alliance from an anonymous terraforming account (conspicuously in excess of your two account limit). Or fleeing at the first sign of danger, despite outnumbering us about 200 cities to 14. Or letting Unbow do all the fighting in Tallimar, even though you're a leadership player in Eagles Eyrie, the alliance we came there to fight. Or using another terraforming account to block off your SW jungle on 12. Camelias (how many terraforming accounts do you have , anyway?).

If you don't like the new direction in Illyriad, that's fine. But there's no need to rage quit in such a dramatic fashion. Good luck in your next game.

-------------
Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Shellarose
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 01:53
I'm not rage quitting, and I did nothin illegal in the game of illyriad--NEVER HAVE--Nothin dramatic about my quittin the game...it's been over a year and some now that your Dicktate have been pushin people around...You speak of slanderin? pft lol that's somethin yall are famous for lol    

lol you know nothing about our terra accts...so accuse all you want.  I never made one nor slandered from one ...where in the world did you ever come up with that one lool


I will remember to never argue with one that likes to argue...it's not a win for either side, rather a loss for Illyriad.

Have fun playin with yourselves.




Posted By: Malek
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 02:15
You made the quitting a dramatic act. 

As for slandering, maybe you should take a closer look at the people you are confedded with. You have Hucbold, the leader of the so called "resistance'", "GA" or whatever you want to call yourselves, who went out of his way to continue label people us as terrorists and nazis. Added to that his latest concoction of identifying tcol as "Ethnic Cleansers". You then also have a player in your confederate who told another player to "go kill yourself". 

As for the current war, apart from mcrow, ecrow and unbow ( we were taking spots), all alliances I am at war with my declarations have been reactionary from other alliances troops hitting my alliance troops. 

Good luck in the future. 


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 02:52
Originally posted by Shellarose Shellarose wrote:

lol you know nothing about our terra accts...so accuse all you want.  I never made one nor slandered from one ...where in the world did you ever come up with that one lool

Yes, I have quite the imagination.

On Nov 24th, a 1 city player named Sindee came into GC to insult [300], shortly after The Phalanx triple sieged you in southern Tallimar. Sindee sounded just like you, right down to the intentional grammatical errors. Then on Nov 25th, the Sindeee account was abandoned with a city named "shellas terra" under siege by you at [-32|832] in Wolgast.

I'm going to throw out a crazy theory. You insulted us on your terraforming account because you were too chicken to do it from Shellarose or Shellaquin. Nuts, right?

-------------
Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Eros
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 03:09
You do have a vivid imagination

Sindee was my terra account, nothing to do with Shella, so go ahead and apologize 


Posted By: Elmindra
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 03:12
Ten, given past forum posts I am somewhat disappointed in you accusing someone of cheating.  Shella does not terraform, especially since she has a main and an alt that is quite public whom is whom.  Besides this, EE does have a number of players who maintain only 1 main account and sell terraforms on the side which is quite legal and allowed by the TOS and Illy mods.  It is quite typical to name a terraform after the person who requested it, and given the fact that many towns were in less than ideal locations it is not surprising that the 300 assault on Tallimar prompted players to request and purchase terraforms to strategically move their towns.

It is not uncommon for players to come into GC and talk smack, heck I see Snaggle and Snot come into GC to do nothing but taunt and brag on a daily basis.  Regardless, I may not expect much from some but I did expect somewhat better given your reputation.


-------------


Posted By: Bill Cipher
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 03:28
I'm Pretty sure its obvious SIN is making the game worse for everyone

'nough said


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d-a-r-o-r-w-o pb wlph kdv frph wr exuq. l lqyrnh wkh dqflhqw srzhu wkdw l pdb uhwxuq


Posted By: Tink XX
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 03:40
Originally posted by Shellarose Shellarose wrote:


Cheating, bullying, lying, bragging, boasting and showing off for those who do not know what is goin on is nothing but a frontal facial facade shown as a backstabbing bendover to Illyriad.


Look Shella, I can see where you're coming from when you're saying that we are bragging, boasting and showing off. I like to trash talk every once in a while, although I've seen a lot of trash talk from Hucbold in GC and everyone was bragging when Ten Kulch's city got razed (mostly people who didn't actually participate in the razing for some reason). That kind of thing is part of the fun in the game for some people.

I can even almost empathize when you say "bullying", which is basically your interpretation of our aggressive gameplay style. We are not actually bullying anyone, as in, we are not singling you out and trying to make you feel bad or intimidate you or apply psychological pressure outside of the context of the game. But we've been through this argument with AJQTRZ many times, it's boring to repeat. Fine, if you think we're bullies so be it.

Now, you are tossing "lying" and "cheating" on this pile of accusations. Where did that come from? Did we use terraforming accounts to block off our cities? Did we attack you from a neutral alliance? Did we have a hundred permasats that started dumping troops on you when things got heated? We're just a handful of players and we've been playing as straight of a game as we could, facing a force 10-20 times bigger than ourselves.

What did we lie to you about? I freely admit we have biases and perhaps sometimes the narratives we tell show these biases, just like everyone else's. But I'm pretty sure we haven't lied or tried to intentionally mislead anyone about the state of affairs in this war.

I should perhaps feel insulted but meh, ad hom attacks seem to be GA's favorite pastime. Always followed by flouncing off and pointing out how nasty the game has become due to these terrible SINdicate people. Good luck finding your new game.


Posted By: Bill Cipher
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 03:43
you practically just said she was right

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d-a-r-o-r-w-o pb wlph kdv frph wr exuq. l lqyrnh wkh dqflhqw srzhu wkdw l pdb uhwxuq


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 04:33
Originally posted by Eros Eros wrote:

Sindee was my terra account, nothing to do with Shella, so go ahead and apologize

So you admit that you came into GC using an anonymous, disposable account just to troll me? How brave.

Shella, I apologize for expressing a belief that you were hiding behind a sock puppet account to troll me. Apparently that was your friend Eros. Friend being a relative term, since the shrill tone of the trolling suggested that you were a prime target for the next round of sieges. Maybe he can terraform you two new spots for that pair of jungle cities you moved.

-------------
Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Eros
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 05:04
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

Originally posted by Eros Eros wrote:

Sindee was my terra account, nothing to do with Shella, so go ahead and apologize

So you admit that you came into GC using an anonymous, disposable account just to troll me? How brave.

Yes, it's all about you Ten Kulch... 

It's was terra account, there is another running right now, there will be many more. I make lots of gold/scraps, I meet good people and share what I know with the noobs and alliances I visit, trolling you occasionally from left feild is just a little bonus ;)

Respect for the apology though


Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 05:31
You whiners need to get a new tune. This same bleating from you sheep has been around since the time I was in H? so long ago. You just need someone to blame for your problems. We are happy to be that someone, just do not use us as an excuse if you do not want to keep playing. Looking at how few we are and how big the map is it is clear you could easily live far from our influence. You choose to play close to us and thus the blame is all yours.

-------------
Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 06:27
Day 33.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 06:51
Day 34. Looks like TEA is, ahem, swirling the drain.

Introducing today, courtesy of Tensmoor, the new http://durctools2.dewt.co.uk/html/memberTracker1.html" rel="nofollow - Cowards & Heroes Tracker! This new script from Tens details exactly who has joined and left any alliances participating in the Grand SIN war since December 6th, the baseline against which the data I've been posting is being measured. Enjoy...and don't forget to drop Tens a note expressing your appreciation so you don't disappoint your mother.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats

http://durctools2.dewt.co.uk/html/memberTracker1.html" rel="nofollow - Cowards & Heroes Tracker!


Posted By: Dabrelis
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 21:17
I am a new guy, so thanks Mafro for keeping this info in forums, to see what is going on in big picture.


Posted By: Celebrant
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 09:24
Cowards?
Heroes?

Someone need long, loooong rest.

Love you all.





Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 05:26
Day 36. TEA and HoMa continue to shrink, while Aesir and EE see growth. 300 recovers 4 cities with 9k population, presumably from exos that have reached their destination.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats

http://durctools2.dewt.co.uk/html/memberTracker1.html" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Cowards & Heroes!


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 06:12
Exodus arrivals, and also one replacement capture.

Can I make a suggestion? The cowards and heroes page might make more sense if it had a section where departures and arrivals were listed chronologically. That would make it easier to see who is jumping among alliances, and who has truly left or joined permanently.

-------------
Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Tensmoor
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 09:49
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

Exodus arrivals, and also one replacement capture.

Can I make a suggestion? The cowards and heroes page might make more sense if it had a section where departures and arrivals were listed chronologically. That would make it easier to see who is jumping among alliances, and who has truly left or joined permanently.


Since the tables are produced by doing a straight comparison of two player datafiles (baseline dated file and latest datafile) that is not currently possible. To do that would require checking all the intervening datafiles to see which alliance (if any) a player was in at the time the datafile was produced.While that is certainly possible the load it would put on my server would break my usage limits and end with my account there being suspended. The scripts to produce these two pages take about 3 minutes to run and push the usage limits for my server account.

I did look at making another script that shows all changes to player accounts (name changes, alliance and role, race as well as new and deleted accounts) between two adjacent datafiles however it took over 8 mins to run which would again cause problems with my server account.

 I am however looking at creating a series of scripts that can be run from a USB drive (with XAMPP on it) that will allow individuals to see the daily changes in all the datafiles using their own machines thereby not putting any strain on my server account. All that would be required is that they download the datafiles each day. The reasoning being that I would like EVERYONE to have full access to the data contained in the files. When (if ever) I'll manage to get it all done I don't know as currently I'm more focused on trying to resolve health issues.


Posted By: Tensmoor
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 10:45
As an example of the data produced by comparing the player datafiles for two consecutive days:

https://durctools2.dewt.me.uk/html/ModifiedPlayers.html" rel="nofollow - Modified Players
https://durctools2.dewt.me.uk/html/DeletedPlayers.html" rel="nofollow - Deleted Players
https://durctools2.dewt.me.uk/html/AddedPlayers.html" rel="nofollow - Added Players

These files were made using XAMPP on a USB drive plugged into my (very slow and low powered) laptop and took a total of 23 minutes to produce.




Posted By: Celebrant
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 18:10
When can we expect the establishment of a vicious military court?
What Penalties Are You Foreseeing?

Developers, stop this rampage in all segments of the game, starting with GC

I love you all.


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 08:22
Day 37.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats

http://durctools2.dewt.co.uk/html/memberTracker1.html" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Cowards & Heroes!


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 14 Jan 2018 at 05:02
Day 38. As always, informed insights welcome!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats

http://durctools2.dewt.co.uk/html/memberTracker1.html" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Cowards & Heroes!


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2018 at 06:29
Day 39. EE and mCrow each lost a member in the past 24 hours. In the case of EE that coincides with a drop of 24 towns, 5% of their total.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats

http://durctools2.dewt.co.uk/html/memberTracker1.html" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Cowards & Heroes!


Posted By: Tensmoor
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2018 at 06:56
One thing to note is that there can be many reasons for leaving an alliance and it may only be a temporary move. For instance if they want to siege an abandoned account that belongs to the same account or one with a NAP/Confed. As far as I'm aware there is no way to tell from the datafiles why somebody leaves an alliance.


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2018 at 07:42
Originally posted by Tensmoor Tensmoor wrote:

One thing to note is that there can be many reasons for leaving an alliance and it may only be a temporary move. For instance if they want to siege an abandoned account that belongs to the same account or one with a NAP/Confed. As far as I'm aware there is no way to tell from the datafiles why somebody leaves an alliance.

Actually, in this case it appears to be two accounts, Shellarose and Shellaquin, that were both in EE and both abandoned. They had a combined total of 25 cities. At the same time it appears a new player joined EE with a single city, resulting in a net loss of 1 member and 24 cities.

You're alliance membership diff file is pretty useful! ;)


Posted By: digiosox
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 00:35
A lot of old time players are constantly talking about leaving the game "any day now" and use combat and siege as an excuse to stop waffling and finally quit.

They generally justify their exit by badmouthing their toxic opponents and throw in some references to real world evil people/actions in a feeble attempt to inject excitement into their otherwise dull abandonment...


Posted By: OssianII
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2018 at 11:34
Originally posted by digiosox digiosox wrote:

A lot of old time players are constantly talking about leaving the game "any day now" and use combat and siege as an excuse to stop waffling and finally quit.

They generally justify their exit by badmouthing their toxic opponents and throw in some references to real world evil people/actions in a feeble attempt to inject excitement into their otherwise dull abandonment...

Well you could be right except this post isn't exactly a bundle fun now. Is it? Tongue


-------------
"The dwarves of yore made mighty spells,
While hammers fells like ringing bells
In places deep, where dark things sleep,
In hollow halls beneath the fells." ~ J R R Tolkien


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 15:31
Day 43. Over the past 3 days...:
  • Aesir dropped 6 towns and 150k pop
  • Unbow picked up a member and 2 towns
  • EE added a couple towns
  • mCrow added 4 members, 10 towns, and 45k pop
  • HoMa showed a breath of life and added a town
  • Loki dropped 2 towns
  • 300 added a member, 5 towns, and 11k pop

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats

http://durctools2.dewt.co.uk/html/memberTracker1.html" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Cowards & Heroes!


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2018 at 05:40
Day 47. Over the past 4 days...:
  • Aesir added 2 members and 7 towns, but dropped 125k pop
  • EE added a couple towns
  • mCrow lost 1 member, 9 towns, and 55k pop
  • Hell dropped 5 towns and 150k pop
  • HoMa lost a town
  • eCrow lost 1 member, 7 towns, and 147k pop
  • Loki lost 2 members, 10 towns, and 93k pop
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats

http://durctools2.dewt.co.uk/html/memberTracker1.html" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Cowards & Heroes!


Posted By: Mafro
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2018 at 06:32
Day 50.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ur6u7YCPj-7Sq4z1reZVZwHaN51IzgWdkDaf2b3jGcQ/edit?usp=sharing" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Stats

http://durctools2.dewt.co.uk/html/memberTracker1.html" rel="nofollow - Grand SIN War Cowards & Heroes!



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