"you *fuzzy kitten*", *Cerberus has taken care of this*

You havn't heard a single whine from me. I am pointing out to people what is going on so that they can watch out for other instances. It is my thesis, clearly stated, that these people are terrorists within the game and if the game doesn't like it, the game can gather together and address it by not allowing these people to hide. Terrorism is difficult to defeat. Your ad hominem non responsive approach is a typical tactic. Answer the argument, question the facts by all means but don't drag the process into the gutter.

GM Cerb, can you please shut this thread down?  

Spartacus (Hucbold) cannot beat us on the battlefield and has decided to slander and call some of us terrorists.   This is just ridiculous and embarrassing rhetoric from an alliance leader of a top 10 ranked alliance.

Stukahh

Again a complete failure to address any of the points made. 

The rules of the game allow them to be terrorists and for me to call them out as such. That's what's happening here and what the war is about.

Technically it would be libel, not slander.

Libel and/or slander are not outlawed in the rules of Illy.

My post outlines a series of verifiable facts and leaves the reader to draw whatever conclusions they like. No conclusions are provided. In fact Gragnog's reply confirms all the facts provided. Other peoples conclusions from those facts does not put those words in my mouth.

You're not going to convince anyone to help you that way.

.... then they should stop terrorising people. 

Standing on the steps of the forum to rally support against your opponents is diplomacy.

Rhetoric to paint your foes in a bad light is politics.

Smashing their armies and razing their cities is warfare.

All of these (and more) are an accepted part of the game world.

Let's get this straight. I have no idea what these guys do in real life. For all I know, one of them might be the Pope. My accusation is that in the game, they play the role of terrorists - clearly they do. Read the OP. There is no accusation of cheating - just an outline of facts that is subsequently confirmed by Gragnog. They are upset because I am casting light on 'their business' and are trying to get it removed so that the 'muggles' won't see the way they work. You are doing your bit in their cause by trying to drown the issue under indignation and invective. 

You dont want to play the finger pointing game. 

Since when has being a terrorist involved hiding in the shadows? Are we forgetting current events with IS making a caliphate and all that stuff?

To be honest, if we start applying real life values then both sides have a certain war crimey feel to them. Personally, I'd keep away from stuff like that on the forums simply because it seems like the sort of thing which could potentially result in a forum ban regardless of accuracy.  

So you are terrorists - as were many of the conquerors of the past that you list. There was nothing noble or admirable about empires that slashed their ways through history. I think the term you are confusing with terrorism is 'guerrilla warfare'.  I have also used the terms 'bully' and 'criminal'. I stand by them.

You are at variance with the sand-box consensus that used to hold sway in Illyria and hopefully will again. I and others intend to reestablish peaceful harmony in Illyria. You are within the rules of the sand-box to resist. I will continue to turn the light on the ways that you play your game

Read a bit more. I did.

Once again you don't seem to be able to grasp the difference between what the game allows and what is moral. My description of you as a terrorist, criminal and a bully is not less valid that the descriptions that come from your side of the argument of 'muggles' or 'farmville players'. Within my moral code you are all the thing I have described and it is a view shared by a large number of people - the people who watch what is going on and keep a low profile for fear of being terrorised. I am not accusing you of cheating or of any real world actions or crimes. I am saying that within the game, you play the role of terrorists.

Alliances like Aesir have members of many different types. Some are military, some are not - like when a country in RL goes to war, not all its citizens are combatants. Illy actually gives you scores so it is easy to distinguish. It is not a one purpose, regimented alliance like yours. Its members have different philosophies and viewpoints and while we may have declared war on Ta2in, we did not start the war and we have not declared war on all the people who are attacking us, unprovoked, yet. Up to the point of our declaration, we were civilians.

However the purpose of this thread was to point one of the ways that your lot work - specifically, Kaggen hiding cities in a peaceful alliance while he disposes of Kaggen, then presumably abandoning Kaggen and starting Orkaggen and getting his cities back - you know like a deposit and withdrawal from a bank - plus interest. Educating the uninitiated was my purpose and from my standpoint, this thread has been a great success with multiple insights provided to illuminate the darkness.

Yes, you did start this war. Kenyl was the first person to attack our forces from Aesir while we had a siege on Lagavulin. In retaliation we sieged and razed Forda Beer. 

The preceding attacks you offered as proof of hostilities earlier from July were between you guys and Josh while you were fighting over LOst A cities. 

You struck first, we hit back, we just hit a lot harder than you. You have tried to save face by declaring. If you were so concerned about your members instead of trying to get your hands on a mine, you would have left it alone. As such, your members at present are wearing the brunt of your decision to enter into this fray. you are not even using your troops but sending Aviddrivers and Peacekeepers troops out. 

You did the declaration and Kenyl did the attacking. Review your combat API's. 

Othello will lose 5 cities over the next couple of days, whoever the brains trust is that told him to exo his towns 1 sq away from our first round of sieges needs to get their head examined. 

Any chance of a surrender is gone. Your inflammatory comments have assured that for you and your allies. 

What a load of self serving twaddle. Even taking your account of events, which is very incomplete, you regard us as the aggressor for clearing a siege on one of our confeds? We were honour bound to do so. In reality, the attacks by the SINdicate on us started several months before that and AGAIN, we did NOT start it. Look at the overall tone of your message - we did not cooperate with your bullying therefore you are going to punish us - terrorism.

You cannot justify an honour bound to help your confeds, that is a the biggest load of crap i have read, have you looked at when you became confeds with mcrow? This was after I started launching at them, and on that note, if you are so "honour bound" as you quite clearly put it, where were your "honour bound" armies when vcrow was attacked by SIN, where were your "honour bound" armies when SHARK was attacked by SIN? Where were your "honour bound" armies when EE was declared on by a 5 person alliance? They were non existent, and if you look at your diplomacy screen, it shows quite clearly the dates involved, and these confeds have been in place for a very long time, not just a recent one in the case of Mcrow. 

You keep making stories up where everything I put out can be clearly backed up with api and other ingame notifictions like diplo pages, and to continue to sell the rubbish that you type, you just keep going on with the one thing, terrorism, and that is because you are trying to justify your existence as leader to your alliance so you can continue your hapless and pathetic crusade. 

You are worse than Pico, and he was an expert at throwing people under the bus. 

Also, woop! Attention rocks! You're paying attention to me right now by reading this! WOOHOO!

Some of you might even confirm you gave me that attention by replying to this in order to then gather attention for yourself! *I like floppy eared bunnies*

Have you actually talked to 'these people'? Because I'm getting an 'everybody knows' or 'of course this is true' vibe in this thread.

CKs post is almost copy paste from interview with oltmans