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Resistance against Ta2in// SS dealer

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=7272
Printed Date: 25 May 2018 at 00:09
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Resistance against Ta2in// SS dealer
Posted By: eowan the short
Subject: Resistance against Ta2in// SS dealer
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 17:52
Hi All,

In response to TA2IN's recent ban of the sale of any Silversteel, I would like to announce that I am happy to act as a go between for SS sellers and SS buyers. IGM me if you are interested on being on either end of that transaction. I will not take a cut from any of the transactions.
I understand military players being military players and going to war like that but this encroaches too far. They are impacting people's very ability to trade in a free market which to my mind is intolerable. They have no right to decide who may buy or sell goods. 
I ask you, where will this end? If we allow big military alliances to dominate trade and control who gets silversteel then how long is it before they start having similar rules on more common types of resources like iceheart.

With this in mind, I call all traders, all crafters and all those with a grudge against ta2in to form a resistance with me to prevent this sort of tyranny. IGM me if you are interested in joining it.

For too long, the big alliances of elgea have allowed themselves to be chipped away 1 by 1. They want to divide us and to conquer us. 
Well, I say no more. Let us stand together, united, and fight. Our freedoms should not be taken cheaply and we should make them pay in blood.

-Eowan The Short/ Arion Splintspur



Replies:
Posted By: Princess Botchface
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 18:00
You've been around long enough to know how forum posts turn out :P

I do love a good Illy manifesto though <3 Vive la Revolution!

I have no personal interest in getting involved but it would be interesting if people actually did, I'm not holding my breath though.


Posted By: eowan the short
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 18:02
He-man has said that he will destroy my ex-alliances despite me having left them. This includes a great number of noobs which has said he will attack. Since when has the community allowed this sort of behaviour? 

[16:58]<Arion Splintspur> he-man, half of those players are noobs, you really going to go after them?
[16:58]*Smoking GNU hands He-man a snickers bar
[16:58]<Kylan> lol
[16:58]<He-Man> Yes I am


Posted By: Tink XX
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 18:31
 


Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 18:49
Lets be very honest here eowan. Firstly ta2in is not a big alliance. Secondly you knew very well what would happen. The aftershock of your actions are your doing. Trying to play the victim card now and screaming for help is pathetic. You caused the firestorm and now you fix it. Innocent players yet again suffer from your actions.

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Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: eowan the short
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 19:00
He-man made a choice when he decided to go after my alliances and the noobs, don't blame me for that. He could have chosen to just go after me but he did not.

I disagree with his actions around the silversteel claim and feel that it sets a worrying precedent. 

As for the screaming for help, I'm fully expecting to get completely noob ringed in this. No amount of help will prevent that. However, I will speak out and I will recruit people and alliances to my cause. 

TA2IN may not be a big alliance but we both know that it has the support of the SINdicate so don't try to bs me on that.


Posted By: Snagglepuss
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 19:38
Your alliance is PCing me and sending me IGMS to not be attacked and trying to surrender...Why do you make them suffer for something you disagree with?? You put others in danger by declaring on us. IF there are noobs in your alliance, declaring war puts them in danger and makes them fair game. Your noobs should be afraid of their leaders not Ta2in... You are simply performing to the crowd like you always do... "I care!!! Look at my big banner, everyone follow me!!" Pathetic!


Posted By: eowan the short
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 19:56
We didn't declare war until we had attacks inbound and IK had tried to talk to he-man to prevent the rest of MoV being involved. I actually left because I thought it might help divert the attack towards me rather than my alliance mates. He-man said he was going to attack the noobs well before we declared war.
Stop trying to twist the facts.

I would ask that you accept their surrenders as they have no part in this fight. Your quarrel is with me and I would have preferred to keep it that way.  


Posted By: Bulani
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 20:21
The rules are stated simply on our alliance profile. Consider your request denied.


Posted By: eowan the short
Date Posted: 30 Jul 2017 at 22:32
It seems that there are 2 valid definitions of the word noob. He-man thought I meant wilfully ignorant players whilst I meant new players. The terms I have been sent regarding new players are reasonable and we intend to reciprocate with TA2IN players. Terms are below:


I look at an account and I will deem it to small if I think it is. There is no need to hide the small players. 

Will they be attacked? Yes probably, but this will be after I or someone else mails them to find out what they have ( beats sending scouts) and we can structure an attack that they can easily dispatch. For example, a 2 city player that makes cav or infantry, if they have 200 infantry we might put a 200 block on them with spears. They get to kill it and keep playing. If they make spears we can send small direct attacks of 5-50 cav, inf or bows depends what they have in the city. 

I am happy for two city players or less to do whatever they want with no worry about losing cities in  retaliation. They can attack sieges, attack our cities etc. My players will know the drill. Maybe 3 city players as well. I can't imagine many 3 city players having large armies. 

Thats where I am at with this. 



Posted By: Silea
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 01:04
#boycott SilverSteel


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 16:09
Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

If we allow big military alliances to dominate trade and control who gets silversteel
...
For too long, the big alliances of elgea have allowed themselves to be chipped away 1 by 1. They want to divide us and to conquer us.

When are people going to wake up and realize that Elgean politics are strangling the game? For the majority of their existence, all five (now ten) of the Silversteel mines were controlled by big alliances. Almost nobody crafts with Silversteel at a large scale. At the small scale, how many commander swords do you really need?

The TA2IN cartel is mostly to the detriment of the large, old alliances who previously monopolized the mines. Those alliances dominate damn near everything in this game--tournaments, trade, politics, entire regions. It is mind numbing how so many players just parrot the worship of the Elgean mega-alliances without ever considering if it's genuinely good for the game, or even for themselves. What's good for Big Brother isn't necessarily good for you, people. Think for yourselves.

This new cartel is disruptive. But it's also something interesting that people are doing within the sandbox. A small, aggressive team has acted to monopolize a rare resource, and disrupt trade of that commodity through menace. That's exciting! How many other alliances are doing genuinely interesting things in this game? People complain that the game needs more content, but then when players step up with bold actions, the mega-alliances react immediately to smother those moves. Wake up, people. The status quo is a system where the mega-alliances get to decide what you are allowed to do, and what you aren't allowed to do, in this video game sandbox. When they get their way, you guys don't have anything to talk about except soap and lurker trees. Loosen up a little. This game is much more interesting when Big Brother isn't forcing everyone to play Illy FarmVille while they police the community with implied force, under the guise that the community has endorsed them as warden.

I think it's pretty cool that overnight, these guys have become the mafia crossed with De Beers. It's probably the most interesting tale to come out of Illyriad this year.

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Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: eowan the short
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 16:53
'When are people going to wake up and realize that Elgean politics are strangling the game?'

That is debatable, it certainly reduces the amount of pvp. However, at the same time the Broken Lands is a whole continent where elgean politics holds little sway. Why not play your unstrangled game there and give people the choice of what they want?

'The TA2IN cartel is mostly to the detriment of the large, old alliances who previously monopolized the mines. Those alliances dominate damn near everything in this game--tournaments, trade, politics, entire regions. '
 
Please explain to me exactly how the TA2IN cartel doesn't dominate trade in a much more controlling way than the old alliances ever did, As for entire regions, surely that is much more the preserve of the land claimers than the older alliances. In both instances, the old alliances certainly were dominant but they were dominant in a way which was softer and made more sense. They dominated trade by being bigger than everyone else but they didn't stop others from trading with this power. Small players could trade easily and without any restrictions. They dominated regions by being there, that is fair in my opinion. They didn't bar others from those regions and if you found a spot which didn't interfere with the 10 square rule it was fine.

'What's good for Big Brother isn't necessarily good for you, people. Think for yourselves.'

Yes, and what is good for TA2IN isn't necessarily good for everyone else. 

'People complain that the game needs more content, but then when players step up with bold actions, the mega-alliances react immediately to smother those moves. '

I'm not sure where you got that conspiracy theory from given that neither RoFC nor MoV are old large alliances. They are both relatively new and have few ties outside themselves. 



You make a general point that the status quo is bad for most players. I'd argue that whilst it is imperfect it is probably better than a system where you can be barred from whole areas of the game, both physically and in trade, just because you are in the wrong alliance. 


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 17:34
Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

That is debatable, it certainly reduces the amount of pvp. However, at the same time the Broken Lands is a whole continent where elgean politics holds little sway. Why not play your unstrangled game there and give people the choice of what they want?

If you think Elgean politics are not exercised with Elgean backing in the Broken Lands, you must be living under a rock. Every major war in the Broken Lands, and many minor ones, have been fought over exactly that conflict.

Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

You make a general point that the status quo is bad for most players. I'd argue that whilst it is imperfect it is probably better than a system where you can be barred from whole areas of the game, both physically and in trade, just because you are in the wrong alliance.

TA2IN is barring people from trading a single rare commodity. That rare commodity has almost always been mined by a few specific, powerful alliances who controlled sales and reaped large profits. If you find the TA2IN monopoly to your personal detriment, do something about it. Illyriad is a sandbox, people should react to the cartel as an interesting challenge in a video game, not something to whine about.

Also, your current predicament is of your own making. You intentionally contradicted He-Man in a very public way, effectively daring him to make good on his threats to enforce the Silversteel trading ban. If you thought he was bluffing, you were wrong. If you didn't think he was bluffing, I have no idea why you challenged an elite military player to take military action without making the proper preparations first.

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Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: eowan the short
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 18:16
I am not saying that elgean politics hasn't held sway in the past, it definitely has. However, in the current climate, elgean politics doesn't even seem to hold sway in elgea so any influence on BL is negligible. 

I am doing something about the monopoly and I am encouraging those who also disagree with it to also take part. 


Posted By: Wartow
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 19:25
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

 I think it's pretty cool that overnight, these guys have become the mafia crossed with De Beers. It's probably the most interesting tale to come out of Illyriad this year.

+1 for the DeBeers analogy.

In the real world a market monopoly is highly desired but often temporary.  Illyriad provides limited resources and inferior alternatives to silver steel equipment, that is, no one can innovate a better resource that makes better gear.  And so the monopoly can continue and still hold value.

What to do about it?  For most we live with the current situation as our need for silver steel is limited and can be met in the market even if the prices are inflated as a result of this artificial-scarcity.

10k's approach is a bit heavy handed and maybe too large in scope (go big or go home, right?) but as he said he wants to be disruptive and isn't looking to restore usual market forces.  He also isn't looking for dev-approved solutions such as big NPC factions destroying encampments or King Siguard to challenge everyone to a tournament involving silver steel mines.

So... what's next?  And how are those currently outside of silver steel mine holdings to come together if they think there is something to this 10k endorsed effort?  Are some hesitant to join without more information on the scope (loosen hold on SS mines in [given] region)?  As a community we've agreed to a number of norms within the game, could skirmishes for SS mines be viewed as acceptable without invoking larger wars?

Did I summarize well?

Good luck to all... 

Wartow


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Posted By: Princess Botchface
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 22:14
Originally posted by Snagglepuss Snagglepuss wrote:

Your alliance is PCing me and sending me IGMS to not be attacked and trying to surrender...Why do you make them suffer for something you disagree with?? You put others in danger by declaring on us. IF there are noobs in your alliance, declaring war puts them in danger and makes them fair game. Your noobs should be afraid of their leaders not Ta2in... You are simply performing to the crowd like you always do... "I care!!! Look at my big banner, everyone follow me!!" Pathetic!

It's your alliance who made the rules and the threats to begin with. You could have just targeted Eowan because you know, he's Eowan and he does stuff like this all the time, I'm shocked he hasn't gotten ringed yet. If you're so worried about how n00bs feel, you could just... I dont know... not threaten them or condone them being threatened? Be all like, we're not going to attack anyone with 3 cities or less, that's not so hard and there's plenty of precedent for that and it still gives you space to enforce whatever it is you want to try to enforce.

Also keep in mind that the war declaration was made by IKnights after the direct threats from TA2IN were made which is a perfectly rational response, I would have done the same, wouldn't you?. 

Eowan is at times a bumbling stooge, but it's a stretch to paint him as the bad guy here, which is what I interpreted from your comments that you're attempting to do. You guys do whatever the hell you want, but it's pretty rich to sit there and try to engage in some emotionally manipulative argument like this, you don't have any moral high ground to stand on. 

Personally I find this whole thing quite interesting and returning to the status quo is not something I condone nor do I condone He-Man being the Master of the Silver Steel. I wish that Eowan had not started the war in this way but it is what it is and it might just get some people to wake up and get interested in building armies and fighting which in my opinion is something Illy really needs.

I hope MoV is successful in rallying people to their cause and I wish them the best of luck. 


Posted By: Phelony
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 22:45
eowan the short wrote:

the old alliances certainly were dominant but they were dominant in a way which was softer and made more sense.

Hahahaha...., that is really funny, you have no idea! This account is new but I have played since 2012 and I know better as do a lot of others that set up in TBL!
Oh yeah by the way, the sword, or should I say spear?, IS mightier than the pen in this game. Just ask AJ,... oh wait didn't he noob ring himself?
As a side note, any of those 2-3 city noobs in either of the alliances that He-man says won't be sieged, should stay and play, to fight! It is really a lot of fun! You will learn what, or,....what not to do.
Either way best of luck to both sides and try to have fun, this is a game ya know!


Posted By: eowan the short
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 22:58
Phelony, for the average player in the game, the big alliances did nothing to restrict their trade. If you wanted to trade in silversteel, all you needed to do was find someone willing to sell you it for less than you could sell it for. That's how I traded in SS. This meant that despite the fact that big alliances dominated the SS mines, it was a softer dominance which allowed other players in if they showed some initiative. 
They were dominant but not in a way which excluded others.


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 31 Jul 2017 at 23:17
Originally posted by Wartow Wartow wrote:

10K ... endorse

Endorse is a strong word. It suggests that I enthusiastically embrace the objective, and that I am in a position where that would actually be relevant. Find interesting, yes. I find the De Beers diamond monopoly interesting, but I do not necessarily endorse it. I find the history of Prohibition to be interesting, but I do not endorse bootleggers.

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Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2017 at 00:24
silversteel is so 2014.


Posted By: Bulani
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2017 at 00:31
Did TK just compare Ta2in to the Prohibition movement and the DeBeers scandal??? WAAAAA????


Posted By: Solanar
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2017 at 00:44
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

Originally posted by Wartow Wartow wrote:

10K ... endorse

Endorse is a strong word. It suggests that I enthusiastically embrace the objective, and that I am in a position where that would actually be relevant. Find interesting, yes. I find the De Beers diamond monopoly interesting, but I do not necessarily endorse it. I find the history of Prohibition to be interesting, but I do not endorse bootleggers.


YARR! officially supports bootleggers. I will gladly buy all the rum. Or steal. Either/or.


Posted By: Binky the Berserker
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2017 at 09:53
this sounds like something those trade alliances should be worrying about. is it time for them to join hands and form a trade (con)federation?

great to see the current events. could make the game finally fun again.


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 01 Aug 2017 at 14:01
Originally posted by Bulani Bulani wrote:

Did TK just compare Ta2in to the Prohibition movement and the DeBeers scandal??? WAAAAA????

No, I compared it to the mafia.

It's just a comparison. I think you're all good fellas.

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Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Captain Kindly
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 11:38
Who cares really? (well apparently some do)

This is only Silversteel, a mineral used for crafting commander stuff.

Which also needs salts.

I am amazed how He-Man managed to goad y'all...


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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/60249" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Tensmoor
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 12:06
I think a lot of folks are seeing this as possibly a 'thin end of the wedge' situation where military style players will no longer be content with having battles with other military style players but will eventually insist on dictating all aspects of the game.


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 14:55
Originally posted by Tensmoor Tensmoor wrote:

I think a lot of folks are seeing this as possibly a 'thin end of the wedge' situation where military style players will no longer be content with having battles with other military style players but will eventually insist on dictating all aspects of the game.


LONDON, Reuters. 08 August 2017. Today, De Beers controls 95% of the world's diamond jewelry market. Public inquiry has risen in recent days, out of fears that if De Beers can manipulate the price of wedding rings, that this represents the "thin edge of the wedge", wherein they will soon rise to global domination of all commodities, and eventually rule the world. Hysteria broke out in chat channels across the world, with citizens fearing that their current comfortable system of 0.25% of the player base dictating all their viable behaviors might be replaced with a new system where only 0.05% of the player base dictates all their viable participation options. In the markets, the price of food, stone, and Trove have risen 0.6% in after hours trading.

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Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 06 Aug 2017 at 16:58
Lmfao. And you think we do not already control how you play the game?

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Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: Djehuti
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 01:12
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

Originally posted by Tensmoor Tensmoor wrote:

I think a lot of folks are seeing this as possibly a 'thin end of the wedge' situation where military style players will no longer be content with having battles with other military style players but will eventually insist on dictating all aspects of the game.


LONDON, Reuters. 08 August 2017. Today, De Beers controls 95% of the world's diamond jewelry market. Public inquiry has risen in recent days, out of fears that if De Beers can manipulate the price of wedding rings, that this represents the "thin edge of the wedge", wherein they will soon rise to global domination of all commodities, and eventually rule the world. Hysteria broke out in chat channels across the world, with citizens fearing that their current comfortable system of 0.25% of the player base dictating all their viable behaviors might be replaced with a new system where only 0.05% of the player base dictates all their viable participation options. In the markets, the price of food, stone, and Trove have risen 0.6% in after hours trading.


Heh, good point made there by Ten, and an amusing read too Smile

The primary difference in how it was before VS how it is now seems to be in the attitude by which its being handled. People seemed more content when the SS was being controlled by a group of well liked players/alliances who monopolized the market less abrasively, opposed to this new vie for control by a group less liked by the majority who are doing it will a more open '**** everyone else' persona.

If the DEVs wanted SS to be made easily available to all, they'd have prolly made more SS mines. The fact that there are so few suggests that this rare and potentially valuable resources is meant to be fought over.




Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 01:59
Originally posted by Djehuti Djehuti wrote:

People seemed more content when the SS was being controlled by a group of well liked players/alliances who monopolized the market less abrasively, opposed to this new vie for control by a group less liked by the majority who are doing it will a more open '**** everyone else' persona.
i think i might restate this as "the people who are less content are those who liked well the group that previously controlled the supply of SS"...which is to say, players who had comfortable arrangements and supply agreements that suited them are, naturally, ruffled. i've seen no evidence that the aggrieved extend beyond that privileged population.

Originally posted by Djehuti Djehuti wrote:

If the DEVs wanted SS to be made easily available to all, they'd have prolly made more SS mines. The fact that there are so few suggests that this rare and potentially valuable resources is meant to be fought over.
the devs implemented the crafting system in its entirety hoping for "friction" or some similar thing. not necessarily fighting, as GM Stormcrow later said, but scarcity is intended to give us something for which to compete.


Posted By: Count Rupert
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 04:04
If it was really scarce.  There's far more SS out there than there are the salts needed to make anything you can make with silversteel.


Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 06:14
So basically you have just given Heman an idea for the next item to be controlled. Will be fun watching you all scream when he controls the salt trade as well.

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Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: Yitshak
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 10:38
Originally posted by Gragnog Gragnog wrote:

So basically you have just given Heman an idea for the next item to be controlled. Will be fun watching you all scream when he controls the salt trade as well.

That would be difficult - Silver steel is only found in 10 mines in fixed locations, salts are harvested from dead elementals and they are in many and varied places...


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You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.


Posted By: Count Rupert
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 12:01
Originally posted by Gragnog Gragnog wrote:

So basically you have just given Heman an idea for the next item to be controlled. Will be fun watching you all scream when he controls the salt trade as well.

Unless one wanted to make the argument that is the whole point of controlling the ss market given the most useful items made with salts also require ss.


Posted By: Ten Kulch
Date Posted: 07 Aug 2017 at 14:05
Originally posted by Count Rupert Count Rupert wrote:

If it was really scarce.  There's far more SS out there than there are the salts needed to make anything you can make with silversteel.

There are far more high grade diamonds out there than could ever be made into jewelry.

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Check out my blog, http://illywarmonger.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.


Posted By: Hyrdmoth
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 13:17
If you sufficiently restrict the supply of silversteel you would expect the value of salts to decline.

This particularly makes sense for a group of players based in the southern continent, where there are no elementals to harvest salts from.


Posted By: Wartow
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 15:02
Can someone list all 10 silver steel mines and who currently controls them?

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Posted By: Gragnog
Date Posted: 08 Aug 2017 at 15:22
Heman

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Kaggen is my human half


Posted By: Yitshak
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2017 at 01:14
Originally posted by Wartow Wartow wrote:

Can someone list all 10 silver steel mines and who currently controls them?
Don't know all 10, but the 5 in elgea are :-
Silversteel (5) http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/124/329" rel="nofollow - [124|329]   http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/40/239" rel="nofollow - [40|239]   http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/-233/-123" rel="nofollow - [-233|-123]   http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/45/-201" rel="nofollow - [45|-201]   http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/846/-208" rel="nofollow - [846|-208]



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You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.


Posted By: Turgon of Rhavenia
Date Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 21:28
As for myself, obviously as an elf I don't require SS as !such as the rest of you, but I find the prices to be fairly reasonable in proportion to the benefit. Obviously I wasn't around before all this ss ban and stuff so j don't have anything to compare it too


Posted By: Celebrant
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 12:52
Devs should erase all SS mines, problem solved

But SINdicate has more reasons for war, I suppose.

Love you all.


Posted By: Turgon of Rhavenia
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 17:00
But then no more SS swords! No more SS armor for my marshals!



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