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One-Year Anniversary of Alliance Land Claims

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance int the Broken Lands, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6865
Printed Date: 18 Jun 2018 at 22:18
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: One-Year Anniversary of Alliance Land Claims
Posted By: Jejune
Subject: One-Year Anniversary of Alliance Land Claims
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 09:34

Today marks the one-year anniversary of the Alliance Land Claims initiative in the Broken Lands. On this day in 2015, http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Alliance/Alliance/1204" rel="nofollow - SIN established its land claim in Fellandire and began an effort to encourage players and alliances the BL to experiment with the idea. Over the course of 12 months, the idea has grown to become an integral part of the Broken Lands political, ideological, and geographical landscape, enriching the game and enhancing gameplay. More than anything else, alliance land claims in the Broken Lands have ushered in the strategic gameplay that was promised to the server when the new continent was founded.

In commemoration of the efforts made to develop alliance land claims as a user-led feature of the game, we will use this thread as a sort of conference to talk about our past experiences as well as new ideas for future expansion of the land claim initiative.

As part of this keynote, I'd like to thank in particular the following players and alliances who have played a role in furthering land claims in the Broken Lands, and the date they were added to the https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1Xhp5hfHbonm8DttYb1mNMS_r-_RcwLxAw4qr9zlQHgo/edit?pli=1" rel="nofollow - Land Claim Map :

  • SIN - April 8
  • Broken Blades [B¦B] - circa May 15
  • The Southern Cross [T-SC] - circa May 15
  • Hansa / YARR! - May 28 / December 8, 2016
  • Blackrock Orcs [BRO] - May 29
  • House Stark [Stark] - May 29
  • The Deathmongers [Death] - June 3
  • Trivium [TVM] - June 5
  • Shu-Han [Han] - June 12
  • The Roman Empire [RE] - June 16
  • Chromium Aphid [CrAp] - December 13
  • Lost Again [LOST] - December 13

I am also encouraging alliances in the Broken Lands who have yet to stake a claim to consider doing so, as well as for someone in Elgea to lead a similar effort. As a reference, here are some helpful links:

Historical Land Claims:

  • StA lays claim to Farra Island:  http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/sta-lays-claim-to-farra-isla_topic1177_page1.html?KW=pathfinding" rel="nofollow - 17 Oct 2010 at 03:56
  • Dlords Claiming of Space for Home:  http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/dlords-claiming-of-space-for-home_topic1481_post13685.html#13685" rel="nofollow - 5 Jan 2011 at 06:48
  • http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/writ-of-notice-dark-empire_topic3214_page1.html" rel="nofollow - DARK Empire land claim, 2012 .
  • https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1Xhp5hfHbonm8DttYb1mNMS_r-_RcwLxAw4qr9zlQHgo/edit?pli=1" rel="nofollow - Land Claim Map
  • http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/alliance-land-claims_topic6359.html" rel="nofollow - Alliance Land Claims Forum
  • http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/land-claims-in-broken_topic6347_post86572_SID35300bbfa3ef4zafbbba1d9ce2a2a8820833333.html#86572" rel="nofollow - 2015 Land Claim Debate



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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/263810" rel="nofollow">



Replies:
Posted By: Steven Quincy Urpel
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 13:22
To be fair, you maybe oughta remove all the alliances that no longer exist / whose claims no longer exist from the map and put them on the historical list. That said, I applaud the effort to make the game more interesting.

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They call me MISTER Urp!


Posted By: jtk310
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 13:48
To the People of Illyriad:

After years of an inefficient and ungoverned system of settlement in the old continent, you are called upon to consider the changes the last year has brought. The success or failure of this long-running experiment will determine nothing less than the future of Illyriad. Although attempts to claim lands have occurred in the past, it seems to have been reserved to the people of the Broken Lands, by their conduct and example, to decide the important question: whether alliances are really capable (or not) of establishing excellent position and structure through reflection and choice, or whether we are forever destined to depend for our settlement options fully by chance or by force, as it was prior to April 8 of last year. The outcome of this experiment will affect all future players.

Because this decision extends far beyond those who will make it, our choice should be directed by a judicious estimate of true interests of players as a whole, considering the merits as it pertains to all and all future players, not our own interests. We all know that is wishful thinking, as people will tend to choose that which best suites their own interests. The scope of land claims is too broad and weakens too many ingrained institutions not to involve in this discussion a variety of personal interests outside of its own merits.

Among the most formidable of the obstacles which Land Claimers have and will yet have to encounter is the obvious interest of a certain class of player in Elgea (and now beyond) to resist all changes which may cause a diminution of the power and consequence of the offices they hold under the old continent’s establishments.

This is not to say that all who oppose land claims are of this sort. I am aware that to level such an accusation indiscriminately would be irresponsible and disingenuous. Honestly, even those who may oppose our views are often acting upon upright intentions, and I do not doubt that much of the opposition which has shown itself and which may later appear will spring forth unsullied by personal ambition from honest errors of minds led astray by preconceived notions of how this game should be run. We, upon many occasions (even outside our game), may see wise and good men as wrong simply due to their opposition of our views. I hope for moderation while considering both sides of this issue, no matter the side of the fence upon which you currently sit.

It is my true and honest opinion, and that of Rome's citizens, that our land claim is a benefit to this game. Many arguments have been made to this point in regards to the efficacy of such claims (at times by myself), and I will not repeat those here. This is a day to celebrate the beginning of the nation-state experiment one year ago, so I will not labor my reader further with arguments designed to put forth my way of thinking. Instead, Rome will take this time to come forward and offer a further benefit of Roman rule, as well as an extension of our current claim. First, the policy change. Those whose cities sit within our boundaries by our permission, who have been forthright and honest in their dealings with Rome, hereby will be under the protection of Rome's might if they are unjustly attacked. This new policy will allow any who have sought Rome's permission to settle in Westmarch, and those who seek permission to enter our lands in the future, the added benefit of feeling secure. Never before has an alliance dared to protect those within an entire continent from unwarranted siege, and I feel that this should show as an excellent example of the sort of changes this nation-state experiment will make in this game. Changes that will further peace and prosperity for all players, not just those who have already achieved it in Elgea.

As to the aforementioned extension of our claim, effective immediately, Rome lays claim to the Southern portion of the desert of Coanhara which borders Westmarch. This claim encompasses all "desert" tiles in the area from -690x to -500x, and under coordinate -2040y. The Southernmost border will vary based on the natural border as desert tiles give way to more fertile land in Southern Coanhara. We also hereby complete our claim on Westmarch, claiming the easternmost section in addition to our earlier claims. Those whose cities already reside in these newly claimed areas are hereby granted a special exemption. These cities are also under Roman protection as per the new policy announced above. This is but the first of many planned benefits to be offered by Rome. As we continue to grow and prosper we will pass that property along to who reside within our land claim.



Posted By: Agalloch
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2016 at 15:36
Hey how come I wasn't thanked in the thread? :o


Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 02:01
Happy Anniversary!

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Bonfyr Verboo


Posted By: Solanar
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 18:46
YARR! as it is now contains a combination of the original YARR!, Hansa, Shu-Han, Deathmongers, and The Librarians (who were not an LC alliance, but were planning one, and said "Land Claims are the future")

In spite of all the forum panic about "newbs who don't know better moving into the land claim" in the last 5 months we've only had 2 cities move into the land claim without permission, one immediately joined us, and the other was a vet who moved again as soon as the 5 days wait was up. 

We're doing well, here in the middle of BL. Land claims have been a strategic advantage, especially given how much I regularly spend on terraforms to provide better city locations in the Isles themselves. Having to push other people off those spots would have been tiresome. 

Cheers,
SolanaRanaloS


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 19:05
After a whole year, I feel vindicated in my original statements that land claims were nothing new to this game, and that in fact the sky was not falling. At first I was neutral to the idea. It took me months to warm up to land claims. What ultimately swayed me was the sensible arguments laid out by the claimers, and more importantly, the proof that the wild accusations of the anti-land claim crowd had never materialized into a real problem.

I would call these claims a great benefit to Illyriad. Really. For the past year, there has been nothing interesting to talk about except land claims. The struggle to control strategic points in the Broken Lands has been very interesting to watch. It has also produced real trade activity. I had grown utterly bored with Centrum, and the whole -1 crowd of copycats just churning the same items endlessly.

It's nice to have a tournament again, but honestly, so much of Elgea has been dead to trade for so long, that it has been wonderful to have active customers in their far-flung part of the world.


Posted By: invictusa
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2016 at 20:08
Happy birthday.  May people not care less for another year.

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...and miles to go before I sleep.


Posted By: Hyrdmoth
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2016 at 15:56
Originally posted by jtk310 jtk310 wrote:

..Rome lays claim to the Southern portion of the desert of Coanhara which borders Westmarch. This claim encompasses all "desert" tiles in the area from -690x to -500x, and under coordinate -2040y. The Southernmost border will vary based on the natural border as desert tiles give way to more fertile land in Southern Coanhara...
I like the idea of making claims on the basis of terrain features, but I feel that if you are going to do so then you are obligated to name such features.

So what is the name of the desert that you are claiming?


Posted By: Sargon
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2016 at 18:18
Name it Coanhara Felix! :)


Posted By: Jejune
Date Posted: 16 May 2016 at 15:38
I believe that my post about this may have been deleted in a previous thread, so I've decided to post it here again and address ajq's final tirade in these forums about the supposed "dangers" of land claims. 

More than anything, ajq was a fearmonger who sought to troll the server (in more ways than one) than channeling fear in order to manipulate the truth. In his reams and reams of verbose, long-winded essays, he covered up the fact that his arguments were without merit with with attempt at persuive and misleading discourse. I intend to expose some of his mis-truths here.

ajq claimed that land claims were spreading like a virus in the broken lands, and that they would eventually destroy the game, since they would lead to a point where players would have no free lands to inhabit and would abandon the game. He may have believed that to be true, but the progression of land claims completely refutes his theory. 

Here is a time-lapsed gif of land claims over the past 12 months:

https://imgflip.com/gif/148mum" rel="nofollow">

As you can see, land claims are CONTRACTING, not expanding. Last year at this time, ajq's point had more validity, since land claims were growing rapidly. In the end, however, the vast majority of BL lands are claim free, and are likely to stay that way, since after the experimentation period, it has been shown that only organized alliances can truly maintain and enforce land claims.

In terms of people being affected by land claim, The Hashashin, who has by far the strictest land claim policy, has had only EIGHT players come into our claim since April, 2015. In all cases, we were gracious and even helped people move with all the basic res they needed. MicroMe, who is one of the nicest and most universally respected players in the game, accidentally showed up in our claim. I encourage anyone who has doubts about land claims and how they are typically enforced on unsuspecting players to IGM her and ask her about how she was treated by myself and the rest of SIN through the course of us helping her relocate.

Even though the land claim map that I maintain is not official, nor does it live on the game itself, it has become quite visible and players are in fact using it to navigate the few remaining land claims, as most land claiming alliances have had similarly few land claim infractions. Perhaps someday the game developers might institute a feature to allow claims to be more visible in the game itself, but in the meantime, the user-led initiative to make them visible has sufficed.

The main problem with land claims are those who oppose them. At every step of the way, their fearmongering, hyperbole, and demagoguery has led to n00bs and other players who are unfamiliar with the meta-game to fear and loathe land claims without knowing the full story.

The evidence above should demonstrate that land claims are niche feature in Illyriad, and one that is kept in check organically by the game itself, since it takes a strong alliance with organization and will to actually maintain and enforce them.

P.S. -- I'm having trouble with all the slides in the gif, but you get the idea.


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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/263810" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Agalloch
Date Posted: 16 May 2016 at 15:49
Good job on your guys end, the copy cats suck at it.


Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 19 May 2016 at 02:36
As one of those copy cats, I would like to offer that the former TVM was one of the "organized alliances" that attempted to "truly maintain and enforce land claims." Unfortunately for us, we weren't up to the task of going against the former SHARK. 

Maybe I'm entirely wrong and we didn't have the "stuff" to enforce the claim, but we gave it a hell of a go. In fact, though, I think SIN's performance against the formerly largest alliance in the game is somewhat more of the exception rather than the rule. 

I say all this as warning to those who think claiming land is a trifle. It is most definitely not. Choose your area carefully and be prepared to defend or die trying.



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Bonfyr Verboo



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