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Badlands as an Arena for War

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Broken Lands
Forum Description: For everything related to the Broken Lands Continent
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6551
Printed Date: 20 Apr 2024 at 16:25
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Topic: Badlands as an Arena for War
Posted By: KenRychard
Subject: Badlands as an Arena for War
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 01:16

    This is pasted from my profile at the urging of some who have read it. Its not a unique idea, as Stukah of SIN has already proposed player/alliance initiated mini tournaments. And is perhaps what the developers had in mind for BL all along.

Concerning Landclaims

In my humble opinion, Landclaiming is the naturally occuring next step in the developement of alliances from loose organizations of like minded players into "nations". By settling together the alliance creates internal lines of communication for trade and war, thereby functioning in defense and offense not as an individual who might have nearby support, but as a collection of individuals with ASSURED support.  Eventually, the Badlands map will appear as a collection of alliance nationstates, and as those nationstates outgrow the land claimed, they will be forced to decide whether to contain their growth or battle with their neighbors for more land.

    Whether early on, as alliances/players who object to landclaims fight, or later, as the landcliaming alliances seek to grow, war is the inevitable result of landclaims.

   Illyriad is a relatively peaceful world becuase it is currently anarchic and decentralised. Individual players may have thousands of squares between cities, and alliances exist not geographically on the map, but as unions of players spread across the world. This very chaos is a deteriment to war, and landclaiming threatens this peace as the insecurity of anarchy is replaced with centers of power that create a sense of security and might which is a prelude to aggression.

   Land Claims may well destroy Illryiad.  BUT...  warring over landclaims only makes that prediction come true more quickly...

Just Sayin....

                         A Proposal from a Rookie on the future of Elgea.....

     As you can see from the above statement on landclaims, I am concerned for the futue and longevity of this unique realm which is posed by the question of landclaims. With a few more weeks experience, the outcome of the landclaim war, and the implementation of hostile factions in Badlands, I have a proposal which is probably NOT incitful or profound, but was what the intentions of the developers and players may well have been all along...

   Gee, maybe we can play differently in The Badlands, while preserving the realtively peaceful status quo in Elgea.

    Elgea stays as it is, a realm of trade, of generousity and mentoring, a realm where great alliances band together in opposition of those who would threaten this harmony.

   And the Badlands becomes an arena for competition. For alliances who wish to form nationstates, to battle for lands, to fight honorably against NPC factions and other alliances.

    I would prefer to see this be a "gentlemanly" wargame. Like the old days of meeting up in the backrooms of gamestores to play Avalon Hill wargames, or warring with minatures on replica fields of Gettysburg.  Where no one has all there cities raised, and we shake hands when all is done. Where those who don't wish to play as ladies and gentleman have the right to play that way, but also must suffer the consequences if others decide to stand against them. And where ALL the players agree the combat shall stay within Badlands, that players with cities in both Elgea and Badlands will involve only their Badlands cities in the fighting, their Elgea cities safe and sources of supply only.

   Instead of waiting for the developers to offer a Tournament, the Badlands becomes a center for player/alliance initiated tournaments, 24hrs a day 7 days a week, and where you settle HERE at your own risk.

   This way, we preserve the nature of Illyriafd which is unique, and broaden the game as well.

   Perhaps we could utilize he Illyriad  Times to issue challenges in the open, instead of all this backroom plotting and he said she said accusations in GC...

Just my humble opinion....




Replies:
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 02:35
You've verbalized the idea well. This is indeed the vision of many of the players who've come to TBL. I expect the usual suspects will add their snide two cents but the shape of things to come is still in the hands of those who've made an actual investment.

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Bonfyr Verboo


Posted By: Jax
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 02:43
What's Illyriad without war? 
I know many players look forward seeing it, but having war all the time is unneeded.  
Just like a country, alliances need to keep order from within. War doesn't help.


Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2015 at 07:17
This all sounds great, but the reason Elgea is the way it is now is that that is how players have been mechanically incentivized to make it.  It's hard to just shake hands and move on when a razed city represents months or years of work and emotional investment.   People will try and protect their towns, and that means creating an atmosphere hostile to aggression.  Even those players involved in land claiming in BL are basically doing the same thing.  Alliances might be more centralized, but your expecting huge behavioral shifts that aren't likely to happen.  

Also, as a more specific side note, there is no way on Illyriad that a Elgea based alliance is going to hamstring itself in the defense of members settled in the Broken Lands.  If you want that sort of PvP, the best way to get it is to find a like-minded group and have it out with them.  And honestly, you could do that anywhere.  Nobody is going to get involved with consenting player playing how they mutually want.   


Posted By: Stukahh
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2015 at 00:15
I beg to differ, Aurordan.  BL has proven to be different.  2 wars and 2 completely different styles of conduct with respect to peace terms.

SIN is proud to be a part of BL and what it stands for.  We want to encourage pvp not stifle it.  So far its working thats to our BL partners.  

Lets keep innovating the game and ignore the haters who cannot leave their comfort zone. 


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I don't always drink. But when I do, I prefer the blood of my enemies.


Posted By: Aurordan
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2015 at 05:02
I don't know that that was "hate" so much as an intellectual discussion of the factors at play, and I certainly wasn't telling anyone what they could or should do.  That said, two super minor wars may not be totally indicative of the ultimate fate of the area.  


Posted By: Stukahh
Date Posted: 13 Aug 2015 at 13:29
I certainly wouldn't refer them as "super minor wars".  Nonetheless, I will keep on promoting an environment whereby pvp can flourish and you can continue to be cynical.  

Like the old saying, "if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem".  I choose to be a part of the solution.


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I don't always drink. But when I do, I prefer the blood of my enemies.


Posted By: Ptolemy
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 23:22
If you wish to claim land, go ahead and claim it. Just be prepared to be able to defend your land. Which is what all alliances who claim land know.


Posted By: Ptolemy
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2015 at 23:25
Originally posted by Stukahh Stukahh wrote:

I beg to differ, Aurordan.  BL has proven to be different.  2 wars and 2 completely different styles of conduct with respect to peace terms.

SIN is proud to be a part of BL and what it stands for.  We want to encourage pvp not stifle it.  So far its working thats to our BL partners.  

Lets keep innovating the game and ignore the haters who cannot leave their comfort zone. 
 
That is a sad part of life, people are not willing to change. BL seems like the ideal place for PVP. Seems like it's going to be an interesting place to watch.


Posted By: jcx
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 06:28
/me throws Orcboy to BL! yay!

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Disclaimer: The above is jcx|orcboy's personal opinion and is not the opinion or policy of Harmless? [H?] or of the little green men that have been following him all day.

jcx in H? | orcboy in H?


Posted By: Ptolemy
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2015 at 22:52
That is a good thing? Tongue


Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2016 at 11:35
Alliances are formed to crush and take over other alliances.

Defeated leftovers will move to distant lands forming new alliances recruiting fresh blood whatever they can, as time goes by different classes between players are forming, tensions will grow between them, greedy and stronger becoming their new kings banishing out those who they don't like, like it were done before to themselves.

Garbage recycling process.




Posted By: Shûl-nak
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2016 at 14:53
One man's trash is another man's treasure.


Posted By: Ptolemy
Date Posted: 19 Jan 2016 at 21:12

Call your granddad, forget how the rest go's. Anyway, asr, LC's have yet to do that. Also, this is happening in BL, not Elgea. It's time to shake things up.

 


Posted By: asr
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 14:15
land claiming is giving you only a common problem for many other players so you make sure that when you go attack someone you are not alone, you have larger changes to have comrades.

Talk that In Elgea somehow are less aggressive or warminded players is a tease. A small tickle.


Posted By: Ptolemy
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 20:29
I didn't say Elgean's are less aggressive. All I said as BL is in't Elgea. I was saying that it doesn't have to follow the same standards and rules that elgea has.


Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2016 at 20:52
As I have pointed out ad nauseam in other posts, using many actual events that really happened, Elgea doesn't follow the imaginary rules and standards that people fantasize it does.


Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2016 at 22:01
First of all, the idea of having a war zone would be nice if it were to have been set up at the beginning and everybody who moved into said zone would have agreed.  But having any group of players decide to make any area of Illy a war zone over the objections of those who are there and those who are not, is imposing your style of play on already established players.  I don't mind at all if you warriors wish to declare any and/or all parts of Illy a war zone so long as you leave me and those like me out of your games and let me play mine.  The amount of resources you might lose is so small as to be of no significant consequence.

I've kept repeating the idea that you could just do two things and have all the PVP fun you want. 1) Drop the intimidation by threats of coercion you put upon the entire membership (and organize whatever PVP fights you want, complete with whatever intimidation by threats of coercion you choose to use on each other) ... in other words, retract your threats issued to all players and replace them with a DOH (Declaration of Homeland); and 2) stop trying to BL into a restricted war zone where any non-warriors are considered second-class.  It is the height of hubris to declare that you are the ones who have the right to make the game into what you wish it to be when all the declarations and intimidation is not necessary to accomplish the goals of area domination and extreme PVP you say you want.

I have a suggestion.  If you wish to play PVP I'll organize a PVP tournament with a negotiated set of rules of participation among those who wish to participate.  And those who do not wish to do so can be left alone.

A couple of things about the attacks on others.  Just because somebody disagrees with you does not make them a "hater."  Such a claim is just one of the many methods used to circumvent discussion....it's name calling and if it were me calling a group of people "haters" I have a lot more armies at my doorstep.  One wonders why one side can make mistakes and sound arrogant and condescending and get attacked, but the other can actually call people "haters" and nobody says a thing?  Just wondering.

And if really wanted to get out of your comfort zone, how about adopting my recommendations?  If, as you imply, I'm afraid to get out of my comfort zone and should be willing to do so, isn't it a bit strange to then say that you are making a land claim so that you can reserve land?  What's the point of reserving land unless you are just trying to avoid fighting for it later on?  In my opinion there is something illogical about saying you want more PVP and then doing everything you can to set yourselves up to avoid PVP.  One would think, since fighting is your comfort zone, you'd not want a land claim.  So how about dropping the land claim and showing us you can live dangerously like you are telling the rest of us we have to live?

AJ



 


Posted By: ajqtrz
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2016 at 22:06
asr

I'm sure there are other reasons for forming alliances.  I actually formed mine for discussion purposes.  Again, it's a sandbox and just as players can choose to have non-warfare ways of playing, so to alliances can exist for any number of reasons, including avoiding war for that matter.

AJ


Posted By: Solanar
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2016 at 00:57
Consent to PVP is given by playing a game where consent is not a necessary prerequisite to PVP. 



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