NC-Bane war
Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=5236
Printed Date: 24 Apr 2024 at 06:10
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: NC-Bane war
Posted By: Halcyon
Subject: NC-Bane war
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 18:48
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There were questions asked about Dark's interest in The war between NC and Bane. The main interest for us is that Malek is my personal friend and a long time friend to Dark. Here below you may see a kind of chronology I made of the joining of members to both alliances since the beginning of the war. It includes only members still in the alliances since I have no easy access to players who are not members anymore. Tournament VII began 03 April. All the players below moved to other alliances for the duration of the tournament, or at least part of it, and returned once the tournament ended. (Bane in green and NC in blue) Hyo Keaves Malek Mohit9006 MrSilentNight He-Man Argrak Back From The Dead Eldrathin Sungy Vicero Jenin Lord Agope LadySusanVonHeip SirJackVonHeip Sirrazer Stardar Beecks Pepe Deimos Tournament ended 01 May. NC declared war on Bane 29 May. The players below joined the warring alliances since the beginning of the war and are still members. I am Megatron joined
Bane from SCRSR (31 May) joined SCRSR from II (02 April) Venita joined
Bane from II (23 June) left Bane to II (22 Jul) Norah joined
Bane from II (24 June) left Bane to II (22 Jul) Robert The Bruce joined
Bane from II (24 June) left Bane to II (20 Jul) Shamarra joined
Bane from II (24 June) left Bane to II (22 Jul) Darpandas joined
Bane from II (25 June) left Bane to II (20 Jul) Think joined
NC from Shade (27 Jun) O'leg Umper joined
NC from NS 28 Jun E5C4P3 joined
NC from TOR-U (27 Jul) Relmsy joined
NC from NS (04 Aug) joined NS from
South (1 Aug) Beardlessmcbeard joined
NC from RES (04 Aug) Asasama joined
NC from RES (04 Aug) Yeerlin Silverleaf joined
NC from NS (10 Aug) joined NS from
N (12 May) Aspidites joined
Bane from PLAN (18 Aug) joined PLAN from Bane (09 June) Venita joined Bane from II (20 Aug) Darpandas joined
Bane from II (20 Aug) Norah joined
Bane from II (20 Aug) Robert The Bruce joined
Bane from II (20 Aug) Shamarra joined
Bane from II (20 Aug) Yagrum Bagran joined
Bane from II (20 Aug) Mayhem Madness joined
Bane from II (21 Aug) Rheingold joined
Bane from II (21 Aug) MickWatts joined
Bane from II (21 Aug) Wonka joined
NC from TVM (22 Aug) Lemure3 joined
NC from TVM (22 Aug) Goldy1 joined
NC from NS (22 Aug) joined NS from
Kosh (10 May) Dave83 joined
NC from Shade (22 Aug) MC Kenna Joined NC from TVM (23 Aug) I recently made a plea to NC leaders to end the war. my reasoning was that with their own members they do not have the power to beat Bane to submission. This war is ongoing for 3 months and no end is in sight. I made NC 2 offers: 1) End the war and if you are interested in more action, come against Dark in a war of walls or a more total war and bring some of your friends (some, not all, mind you). 2) Have all the members that were not originally in the war leave the war and NC and Bane continue to slug it out between themselves. NC rejected both my offers. As things stand and if NC continue recruiting members from other alliances, this needless, endless war will expand until we may have a 2nd world war on our ends. I call upon NC again to accept peace without terms. If they reject my offer again, I call on all players out of the war to remain out and not expand this senseless war of attrition. Halcyon for Dark.
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Replies:
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 20:49
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Wow - a whole 150K population while Bane are still 1.3million (or 50%) bigger than NC and an ongoing threat to add 6.5 million (e.g the size of both combatants combined) on the side which already has a 50% advantage in pop. Sounds like someone on the Bane side is getting desperate if they have to bring in that much help... ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Llyr
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 20:51
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I would guess that the people in it want to be in it, so it can't be needless. And why isn't the game's most vociferous "warmonger" on either list? ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/187558" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Sloter
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 21:37
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Nice statistic, few things are missing but not my place to speak of it. It looks that both sides have similar power at the moment.For those who check herald for sieges it can be seen that lack of troops is evident for both sides so outcome will be decided by who uses their troops better. That said it would be best if war ends by finding peaceful solution acceptable for both sides. |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 21:48
I stand Corrected: it is actually 274566 in favor of NC  , I was counting Aspidites of Bane (pop. 124097) as a new addition, but he was already in Bane when the war began.Regardless, NC began the war knowing very well that they are smaller than Bane (and that Bane lost most of their troops in the tournament), so if they insist continuing they should do it on their own as we will allow Bane to stand on their own. The second part of your post KP: "an ongoing threat to add 6.5 million (e.g the size of both combatants combined) on the side which already has a 50% advantage in pop." is unclear to me. As for desperation...we shall have to see.
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KillerPoodle wrote:Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 21:48
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I don't get it. You want to end the war but will add to it if ~NC~ doesn't do as you demand? You could just as easily have said "If BANE doesn't surrender and accept ~NC~'s terms...blah, blah, blah" but you like Malek so, this thread. What's up with this veiled threat: "As things stand and if NC continue recruiting members from other alliances, this needless, endless war will expand until we may have a 2nd world war on our ends."? By "As things stand and if..." I am guessing (since you aren't really clear about much of this) that Dark will declare against ~NC~ just because, regardless of whether they stop recruiting or not. Since you opened this thread, here's my opinion: I think you should either do it or don't but knock off the theatrics because no one who has any interest in this will be swayed one way or the other by this thread. ------------- |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 21:52
If you are referring to Twilights - as I suspect you are - she isn't on either list because she is a part of Dark and we do not support an escalation in this war as some appear to promote.
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Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 21:57
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Rhetoric aside, if you don't wish to see the war escalate, stay out of it. If you continue to take part in it, even as a propagandist, you are enabling the escalation. ------------- |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 21:58
1. I don't demand anything of NC but peace. 2. I'm not threatening and am not planning to declare on NC. They should simply stop recruiting from other alliances and if they are bent on winning this war, let them win it as they started it: by themselves. 3. I'm trying the sway only those not already swayed. So you, who already sent players to join NC and support their war, are certainly not my audience.
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Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 21:59
No, you who are adding combatants to the war from your alliance, are enabling the escalation.
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Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 22:19
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Just saying "no" don't make it so... ------------- |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 22:24
Sharp
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Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 22:33
Ok, so from what I can gleen out of your post: 1. Your demand is more like a wish, since you won't be doing anything to back up said demand. 2. Your opinion is that ~NC~ shouldn't recruit during wartime and I will assume you feel the same about BANE. 3. This is not a thread for anyone in either alliance or any alliance with any connections to either. This is a thread for bystanders, for swaying the oh so important court of public opinion because we all know ~NC~ and her members give more than a hoot about that. Does that about sum it up? ------------- |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 22:46
Then you agree you are enabling an escalation? ------------- |
Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 23:19
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Based on your own post, Bane has added 16 people and NC has added 12. Thus Bane is actually doing more recruiting from outside the war than NC. Guess you should have made this declaration against Bane rather than against NC. Or you know sit back and watch what was before a pretty simple war between two parties. Though just for the future can we call this the 'baneling war', then we can make a cool picture/poster with banelings from SC II :D
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Posted By: Tamaeon
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2013 at 23:44
Its not my intention defend Halcyon's remarks; but I can't help but notice, that he merely called for an end to the war. So far most replies appear to be focused on "escalation" and have paid no mind to DARK's call for peace.
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Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 00:11
| I do believe KP coined the perfect Name-- The Banal War... |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 00:29
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I remember seeing SB state in GC that he had offered terms but they were rejected. There are always two sides to the story but what most players have seen in GC is the spin by BANE and DARK. If BANE wants peace they should be talking directly to NC and negotiate terms; everyone else needs to stay out of it. It is the usual procedure for procuring peace at the end of a war, the side winning sets the terms for peace. I'm not sure why a Mercenary Alliance that is paid to fight needs to have confeds. Did it ever occur to you that confeding with a warring alliance might be construed as statement of support with the intention to escalate the war? If you have read GC in the past few days, it is belief voiced by many who thought DARK was going to escalate the war. While I'm happy to see you are encouraging everyone to stay out of it, I believe you should be a bit more transparent with the facts. ------------- CEO, Harmless? Founder of Toothless? "Truth never dies." -HonoredMule |
Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 01:50
i'm not sure what the intent of the OP was; if a war is going to go on for 3+ months, it seems unreasonable to ask the involved parties to refrain from recruiting. also, it's worth considering that the participants that have joined from other alliances may be only temporarily on one side or the other, and that their participation as individuals is, in fact, keeping them from agitating their respective alliances to join the conflict...thus keeping the war from escalating.
i remember all of this being about an NS player "surrounded" by BANE sov, but as BANE thereafter removed the offending sov, it seems clear there is more going on than that. i am long resigned that NC fights when and whom it wants to. |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 02:54
If I only had a 3:2 advantage over NC, I'd probably recruit heavily, too.  Jokes aside, the call for peace seems reasonable. However, I find it quite curious that BANE isn't speaking for itself. Is there a reason why most of its PR in chat and the forums is conducted by friendly third parties, or by players who deserted BANE? Malek and Sir Bradly are big boys, and I was under the impression that they are quite capable of articulating their positions on their own. I also find it unusual that Halcyon has neglected to point out that Insanity Inc. spontaneously joined the conflict on BANE's side, adding a huge infusion of players, troops and population. It seems rather unreasonable to ask NC to refrain from recruiting their own friends to fight, given that their recruiting obviously happened twice in response to BANE's recruitment. If you wish to limit participation in their war, perhaps all the Insanity Inc. players should leave BANE, and NC's allies can return to their home alliances. Then BANE and NC can settle things on the original military terms, as you have already proposed. I seriously doubt that either side will agree to return their powerful allies to the sidelines. As Angrim points out, NC isn't squeamish about warfare, and it was my longstanding impression that BANE wasn't either. I would point out that debating the trigger event is rather academic. I seriously doubt this war is only about some sov claims in the newb ring, any more than the last major war was only about a Trove mine. There were lots of escalation points at which either side could have diffused the situation, and they both voluntarily chose to continue fighting. I say let them settle it themselves. |
Posted By: Diomedes
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 03:15
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Noting that: 1. Halcyon initiated this post because of questions being raised in GC concerning the possibility of DARK entering the war, and 2. That, as Leader of DARK, Halcyon has declared there is no intention of DARK escalating the war, that seems to answer the questions raised in GC, and if DARK now happened to enter the fray, it would surely reflect on the integrity of DARK's leadership and thereby diminish it. I can only conclude that there will be no escalation by DARK alliance, and I thank Halcyon for answering the concerns of myself and others. All other posts here, would seem to me, to be peripheral to the matter raised by Halcyon, and perhaps better suited to another forum thread where we might endless debate the merits or otherwise of the current conflict. ------------- "Walk in the way of the good, for the righteous will dwell in the land" |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 04:01
Couldn't he have stated such in GC any time he was asked? Instead of simply answering questions and declaring his alliance militarily neutral he came to the Forum. He announced that he was demanding (his word) that ~NC~ accept peace without terms and that if they didn't they should at least stop recruiting. It seems to me that because this thread was started all the posts in it are legitimate and were invited by the very existence of the thread. ------------- |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 04:43
You are counting some of II's former members twice. |
Posted By: Llyr
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 05:00
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Those who are involved in this "war" are there by choice because Illy has provided nothing new for over a year. So just leave them alone and let them play; they're doing their best to do something interesting in a dead game. Those who want to join in can leave their moribund alliance and join in for the fun Those who don't can carry on being bored harvesting grapes. I'm harvesting grapes.
------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/187558" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: The Duke
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 05:10
If Malek is indeed your RL friend then sure back him up. Enter in the fray. However dont expect to make the rules by doing so(i.e Nobody can recruit, no confeds allowed ect.). When going to war for any reason you dont need to have public support. Everyone has their own agenda whether that means doing whats best for you/your alliance or helping a friend. Ask yourself if what ppl say in this thread will determine what your course of action will be. The voices of the mob are louder than their armies 9 times out of 10. Ive never had someone talk one of my cities into rubble :P Sure other alliances can pile on- but hey you cant always wait for the devs to make a tourney in order for the game to be fun. Sometimes players NEED a war ------------- "Our generation has had no Great Depression, no Great War. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives." |
Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 05:16
My bad 13:12 Same result. Either way it shows Bane is just as guilty of 'recruiting' as NC. Also you may notice this odd trend of all those who joined up with Bane did so before NC got their friends involved. You could say Bane escalated things by doing such things as getting friends from other alliances involved. Or you know going and asking another alliance to 'demand peace' for them. Its quite clear the only ones escalating are bane and dark. Guess thats what happens when your losing the war. I say Dark does the same thing they 'demand' of everyone else and stay out of it.
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Posted By: Kompanion
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 05:22
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Bottom line for me is this: Dark is now confederated with Bane, we do not have plans for escalating the war, but are willing to stand by Bane. |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 05:47
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Is it just me who wonders how an alliance can stand by another without taking action? What does it mean that you have a Confederation with them? What does it mean that you continue to speak for them? What does it mean that you demand unconditional peace from their enemy? Will you stand by and do nothing if they ask you to take action? Will you take no action if they are clearly loosing the war? ------------- |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 05:48
Not to be obtuse, but how do you intend to "stand by Bane" without deploying troops? Because I'm pretty sure that deploying troops would count as an escalation, and that not deploying troops wouldn't really count as Standing By Bane (TM). Unless there is some kind of subtle middle ground that I'm missing here. This reminds me of a previous forum debate about, "Breaking sieges for confeds is a defensive attack, and does not constitute involvement in a war." Interesting theory, but completely unenforceable on your adversaries. |
Posted By: Kompanion
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 05:51
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I guess I am not going to enter a war of words on here. By that I mean, I don't feel the need to prevail in any argument on the forum. We didn't seek public opinion for permission to Confed with Bane. If you are curious, we don't have plans to escalate the war. Halcyon tried to work towards peace. If other alliances would like to join in against Bane, we would be more than happy to come to the aid of Bane. It's really only as complicated as you wish to make it. |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 05:56
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Thanks for the clarification. Not complicated at all. ------------- |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 14:05
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And yet another TVM palyer comes to the aid of NC: http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Player/Profile/157528" rel="nofollow - jtk310 Joined NC Sptember 1st with a population of 131158. Bringing the total numbers of joining NC to 13 against 10 joining Bane and the population balance of those joining to 405724 in NC's favor. If there is any brave soul (not an alliance yet) willing to join on Bane's side to balance this recent outside reinforcment to NC's power, I would appreciate if he notifies me in the next 24 hours, if one such player will not be found, I will have to join with a Dark account. My only reason for not doing it right away is that Dark is pretty far from the main battle area of this war. |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 14:18
Halcyon, again, more spin. BANE has the advantage given the current numbers, in fact, they've had the advantage from the beginning of this war. If BANE is unhappy with the outcome of the war, they should be in "serious" negotiations with NC. Bane Pop: 3,821,885 Members 39 NC Pop: 2,694,778 Members 26 ' So now you are recruiting for BANE? They don't have a big enough advantage? ------------- CEO, Harmless? Founder of Toothless? "Truth never dies." -HonoredMule |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 14:31
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~NC~ is winning the recruiting drive too? ------------- |
Posted By: Pellinell
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 14:39
That doesn't sound very neutral on Dark Empires part. BANE has always outnumbered NC significantly and still does, yet you are threatening NC with aid from Dark should no one else join BANE ? In my opinion that is an escalation by a much larger alliance that has no business in the current conflict.
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 15:07
we need some action in this game...alot of people will start playing again if someone blinks in this staring contest...we already see our declining numbers. people shouldnt be so concern with losing castles and with broken open there is another separte area to play in...we should be competeing against other...lets get this game rockin and rollin before we lose alot more players to boredom and try to keep this side active....someone please declare...and remember this is nothing but a silly game...it has nothing to do with real life...dont take it so serious and lets have fun!
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Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 15:19
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Always the optimist, twilights...lol ------------- |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 15:32
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Halcyon, again, more spin. BANE has the advantage given the current numbers, in fact, they've had the advantage from the beginning of this war. If BANE is unhappy with the outcome of the war, they should be in "serious" negotiations with NC. Bane Pop: 3,821,885 Members 39 NC Pop: 2,694,778 Members 26 ' So now you are recruiting for BANE? They don't have a big enough advantage? [/QUOTE]Nope, NC specializes in finding easy targets: for example steel when they were a large group of small weak players and now Bane a larger, stronger allaicne, but practically empty of troops after the tournament. Yet this time it wasn't so easy, so they exodused a lot of Electrok's cities (8 of his cities if I'm not mistaken) and when Myr refused or failed to exodus the capital city of their alliance, it was razed. Problem: things weren't going as they were supposed to go. Solution: Bring in reinforcments from the Ex-Coalition alliances and finish Bane up. Sad thing is that it is working since nobody tried to put a stop for it, even I only toldour friends in H? that this is not right and should be stopped. But in the name of peace, and old friendship I did nothing and allowed this farce to continue. No more. For each account joining NC, there will be a Dark account to balance and even the odds, until there are no more Dark account. NC and it's allies can agree to peace, that is all we want. and I'll end with a paraphrase: "You are failing this game". |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 15:48
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So there is no misunderstanding, in spite of the advantage by BANE, DARK is still doing to join the WAR. You can play semantics all you want but DARK made it very obvious with the confed their intentions and you've just confirmed it. Whether DARK enters one member at a time or all at once, the effect is the same. What do you consider a fair balance in order for BANE to win? 3:1 or 4:1 against NC? Again, if BANE wants peace they need to start negotiating with NC. DARK has no business in this war, spin it any way you want but entering with fresh troops after BANE and NC have been fighting for months (keeping in mind that NC also fought in the Coalition/Consone War and the tourney) is just wrong. Don't declare you are fighting for justice when the numbers show BANE has the advantage, you are going for overkill. You need to stay out of it, let them fight until both sides are ready to seek peace. If Malek wants peace he should be negotiating; if he wants to stop additional losses of BANE cities, he should be negotiating. There comes a point when a good alliance leader measures the value of continuing a war and the future welfare of his alliance. I understand you are his friend but there have been some very bad decisions made in this war, you are now adding to it. ------------- CEO, Harmless? Founder of Toothless? "Truth never dies." -HonoredMule |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 16:05
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If you expect that I'll continue to sit idle while NC's allies continue to add members to their lines, you are mistaken. NC can't win this war by themselves so they should end the war instead of adding power from outside. Since they are continuing to add power means that they are calling my bluff. I'm not bluffing. If it was up to me, this war would never have started and will end today. I believe you in H? have the power to end it today. NC did not do enough to deserve a surrender. They should settle for unconditional peacen and not try to finish it with their allies. I've made another offer: remove all those who joined the war after it began and let the real NC and the real Bane fight it out. NC does not need it's allies to win a war, do they? If you deny this and continue to allow NC to be reinforced, why shouldn't Bane do the same. It pains me that Dark who was a part of The Coalition and fought side by side with H? NC and the rest of our allies, must now stand against them, but Dark always does what we believe to be right, and opposing the current reinforcment of NC so that they could win their war is the only right thing to do. You can't deny it to the other side. Stop the war now, stop reinforcing NC, or stop claiming this is a spin (you can continue claiming what ever you want )
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Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 16:06
just get off ur high horse and declare...omg its so obvious...everyone in this forum including me are so full of it...this is why most people dont read these forums...its always full of lies and misdirection...anyone following the game knows whats up and i hate the mind games being played...u wonder why we have declining player base...its a game that allows so few to gather so much game strength..declare! all this bs is just ruinning the game for others
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Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 16:18
I agree to your statement Starry: 1) Start the war on a ridiculous pretext. 2)Support NC and their ridiculous pretext. 3)Reinforce NC and their failed war. 4)Continue to support NC and refuse to accept peace. |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 16:19
My horse is a pigmy. |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 16:22
Dammit! I'm bringing my best rethoric and finness to this thread, and this is what I get! 
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Posted By: Legacy
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 16:48
Methinks anyone else who considered siding with the BANE-side just pissed their pants when they saw they would be up against the mighty H?.
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Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 16:51
H is not involved in this war, we have been very clear that we do not belong in this war. We have not provided support to NC in any way shape or form. No H troops have been involved in this war and to my knowledge, none of the other former Coalition alliances are involved either. Get your facts straight and please stop posting untruths. Your posts are becoming very offensive, Halcyon.
That is not what I said, stop twisting my words and look for a solution instead of escalating the war. Alliances fight wars just to fight all the time, what is not acceptable are other alliances piling on opponents when their "buddy" is losing. If you want to be a good friend, I suggest you counsel him to explore other peaceful options. Make no mistake, you are threatening to escalate this war, all the points you've posted do not belie the fact that in the war between BANE and NC, BANE has the advantage in numbers. The numbers are public, anyone can do the math. AGAIN, you know that Harmless is not involved in this war, we have been very clear on this issue. In all my years of gaming I have never seen a Mercenary Alliance cry for help.....geez. This is becoming very pathetic. ------------- CEO, Harmless? Founder of Toothless? "Truth never dies." -HonoredMule |
Posted By: Angrim
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 17:22
does H? have some interest in the outcome of this contest? i am sensitive to the spin (no one here is fighting for "justice"), but last i knew H? made no apologies for aiding its confeds, declared or otherwise, and i'm curious why it's become such a point of contention that DARK should be considering doing the same. |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 17:41
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If H? does not support NC why am I crossing words with Starry and KP? Fine, you are not supporting NC. Why can TVM join on NC's side and Dark can't join on Bane's side. How is it different? I say once again that I do not want to join this war, as I have been telling interested parties for weeks. Yet TVM is joining and it is okay because the gap between NC and Bane - which was known to NC when they declared war - must close? Did NC wait for Bane to retrain their soldiers before declaring war? What was the gap in troop numbers when NC declared and what is the gap now when TVM is bringing fresh troops to NC's side? Call off TVM, or don't lecture me that I'm escelating. |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 17:52
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Weeeell, finally a forum argument ... but somehow the actual people involved in the war are absent ... shouldn't we stop talking about other people's affairs, mind our own business and let them do their thing .?. But since the topic exists, some things are worth noting/commending upon.
It is actually quite easy ... it will act as a scarecrow for anyone else that would like to jump ship for one particular side and it will give a bigger leverage for the other side to appear stronger and, thus, recruit more efficiently.
Isn't this a bit of an arrogant declaration .?. You do not OWN your alliance members, after all ...
The same can be said for BOTH SIDES though ... I have no problem with people taking sides openly, but, dude, either apply equal standards for both sides, or stop covering the double standards because it is actually hurting your cause instead of helping it.
Well, you might not be bluffing, but if you read your posts you sure are contradicting yourself about your intentions of entering the war or not ...
Bottom line : The war is between NC and BANE and let them fight it as they like. Whoever wants to support EITHER side should be able to join the fray and, last I heard, there is no overseer of what alliance and what wars an individual player can join in Illyriad, so I do not know how you thought that trying to place one-sided rules on other players was a good PR idea. Disclaimer: All the above is just my personal opinion on what I see in this thread ALONE and I have no interest in the war ... in fact I even noticed it during the last week and I know no facts about it (why it is fought, who started it, who is winning etc), but as you can see this thread is not really helping its cause ... |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:00
I believe that things were said in this thread that might have been offensive to me too, regardless, if my choice of words offended you, I apologize and will attempt to better it. To my knowledge, Bane was never paid to be in a war, only in 2 tournaments and in tournaments a lot of deals are made. I think what you said here is irrelevant.
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Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:17
 on my feet |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:23
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Yes, it's true. You are not trying to place one sided rules on anyone. But why do you get to place rules at all? Oh, and by the way, I never stated that BANE should not recruit. Let them. Recruit away, BANE. Of course, I'm not making the rules. ------------- |
Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:23
Bane members have done more than hire out for tourneys, they have also been paid to hit players. I Btw: you might want to read this topic: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/dark-knight-enterprises-bane_topic3997.html" rel="nofollow - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/dark-knight-enterprises-bane_topic3997.html ------------- CEO, Harmless? Founder of Toothless? "Truth never dies." -HonoredMule |
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-n
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)Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:25
Fair enough.
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Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:27
Since Bane did not enter this war in a mercenary capacity, but was declared on as any other alliance, I still maintain that it is irrelevant.
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Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:35
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btw Starry, You continue to argue with me while giving no real choice. You are basically telling me (and correct me here if I'm wrong) that NC can be reinforced and that this is not an escalation, but that Bane can't be reinforced and that that would be an escalation. If you can give another option as a mediator, Dark will have a choice. Right now, we don't see an option, but the course of action I already stated.
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Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:39
Yes, but BANE isn't participating in the war by themselves either ... a small margin of population in the recruited players from both sides is to be expected, as well as a fluxuation of that difference in favor of a side as the time passes. Plus a couple of hundred thousands of difference in the "migration" score is not a big deal for either side. You just said that NC is winning this war (don't know it myself, just going along with your post) when it already has a much smaller population, so it is evident that population is not really the deciding factor in the conflict.
Well, I read the whole topic and didn't see that ... if you find a quote by anyone saying this I am sending you 1000 saddles
So, what you are practically saying is that your alliance is out of the war, but it will enter it in increments and will be used as a troop reservoir for BANE.
Ok, and what if other people have the same idea like you .?. When will this "oh we are just a reservoir alliance, don't mind us" stop if others start doing it, even our of boredom .?. Why not let BOTH alliances recruit whatever players they can ON THEIR OWN instead of turning this war into an open invitation party by placing your alliance in reserve for one side .?.
??? |
Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:40
| I think Starry is saying that professional mercenaries are battle hardened warriors. It seems reasonable that if BANE had a population and troop size advantage, this was a fight in their favor. |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:45
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Sorry Deranzin, I don't have the energy to answer your posts, they are too exhausting But as for Dark reinforcing Bane: 1) It is a reaction to others reinforcing NC. 2) We are open about it. Cheers,
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Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 18:49
Being called a mercenary gives you no advantage. Having low troops levels when a war begins puts you in a disadvantage. If population size can quickly repair a disadvantage in troop size is debatable.
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Posted By: Kompanion
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:03
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Really, come on, what does population have to do with troop levels? Why are we talking about population of newer accounts when troops are the ones doing the fighting. I have not researched the technology that allows me to send my citizens to battle. I am guessing my citizens would not much care for me if I did. If NC and Bane want to be open about this. Let us allow an impartial party (not Dark or h? at this point) sitting rights to look at troop levels of the accounts that have joined recently. I think that perhaps a member of the Crow Federation would be a good choice for this task. Rather than speculation, postering and spin. We would have actual troop numbers to see what NC and Bane is doing. Once we have numbers we can go from there. |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:14
Why should any of those alliances do that .?.
Why should the CrowFed bother to take the responsibility .?. Did you ask them before involving them in this proposal .?.
Again WHY bother .?. It is not YOUR war ... get off your high horses guys and let NC and BANE PLAY THEIR CONFLICT as THEY LIKE. Their war, their rules. Simple as that. |
Posted By: Kompanion
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:16
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Deranzin, Why try to get facts? I guess I don't know how to respond to that. |
Posted By: Epidemic
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:18
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Might as well throw my 2 cents in... I can't tell who is winning and who is losing, to me it looks like a tie. It's been pretty savage though, with a few players losing a lot of towns. From what I see in the initial thread is that BANE was depleted of troops from the last tourney, but still managed for the most part to hold their own. I remember someone saying BANE/II were in the process of merging before this war started. To me this thread looks to be quite simple; GC has been stirring with gossip ever since BANE/DARK became confed. DARK created this thread to let us know where they stand. If players from other alliance jump into the fray to help one side I see no problem with one alliance saying we will also jump into the fray to help those on the other side. I'm not taking sides, there are players on both sides I respect. |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:23
Why BOTHER with facts which do not concern you ... start by answering that ... Also do tell us under which logic two warring alliances would go public with their troop levels to a third alliance ... what would they gain and why would they share that crucial information .?. |
Posted By: Kompanion
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:33
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Deranzin, 1) Only accounts which have joined recently would be looked at and only by a mutually agreed upon party. 2) We have taken a position and there is much debate over things that do not concern you. I am in Dark so yes, they do concern me. 3) It seems you want to argue about things that you have no business in are you in Bane or NC? Hard numbers would take any spin out of it. Perhaps that is what you are opposed to. |
Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:33
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It's been three months. Population equals gold equals troops. Three months. Who has the advantage after three months? Isn't BANE building? ------------- |
Posted By: Kompanion
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:38
I am talking about looking to see if NC brought in powerful accounts recently, in an attempt to turn the war. Only recent accounts are the ones in question. So why not bring them to light? Would you like to know the truth or keep it hidden? |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:41
Under what AUTHORITY would you force those people from BOTH SIDES to wield their account's information and troop levels .?. And mutually agreed by whom .?. By the alliance leaders .?. Since when do alliances OWN and ORDER the players to such an extent as to make a player/individual lay bare his account for others to see .?. Also, supposing that one side - ANY SIDE - ends up having a some slightly better recruits ... SO WHAT .?.
This is a public forum. You posted them PUBLICLY, ergo they CONCERN EVERYONE, ok .?. Next time you want to keep a lid on things, do think over your actions and where you post your thoughts and strategies, instead of trying to sensor people afterwards.
Neither are you, last time I checked.
There is NO spin in the simple thing I am saying. THEIR WAR, THEIR RULES. What exactly can't you understand in that simple and perfectly clear concept ? |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:42
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These questions have become academic. We have stated our intent and unless peace is agreed upon (it may be agreed with me despite Dark accounts not being in the war yet) we will begin to act soon. I wish those soon to become our enemies luck in battles and misfortune in the war. I do not plan to post again in this thread (though I've been known to change my mind), so interested parties my igm me. Glory to the builders! (where did that come from?!)
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Posted By: Brandmeister
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 19:59
Population produces the gold to support troops. I'd bet that both sides have massive stockpiles of gold, so upkeep is only a long term factor. However, city size also supports sovereignty, and military sovereignty builds troops. BANE is #14 for lands, and NC is #16. That seems pretty equal to me. All the numbers I've seen indicate that this is a punching match between two equally sized opponents, for both population and deployed sovereignty. Both are military oriented alliances. Both sides participated in the escalation to this point, and neither seems inclined to back down. I don't see BANE or NC crying on this thread or anywhere else, and I don't really expect to see that, because they've both got reputations as tough guys. I think it's fine that BANE got Insanity Inc. to join them. I think it's fine that NC recruited some big tough friends of their own. I think it's fine that DARK is joining the fight. And when the next set of warriors joins NC, then BANE, then NC, ad nauseam, I will think that's fine as well. It's a punching match, so it seems likely to get settled by punching. |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 20:00
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someone hurry up...i want to watch glee and later i want to go shopping...opps thats real life...i hope u guys have big gonads...i got plenty of tricks to try...and by the way...i fear no alliance in this game....its time others start feeling the same...they can be brought down if we work together! make them cry and whimper and we can do it!...lets us do the spin and make them pool boys...grins |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 20:26
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There, you see, I couldn't stay away... I WANT TO SEE GLEE TOO
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Posted By: DeathDealer89
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 20:28
You messed up on your own timeline. According to your original post 1) Bane got reinforced 23-25 June 2) NC waited until 27 June-10 Aug to get reinforced. 3) Bane got reinforced some more 20-21 Aug 4) NC got reinforced some more 22-23 Aug 5) ??? Dark sees that NC got reinforced and decided that it isn't ok. And that they would 'react' to reinforcements by further reinforcing Bane. All the while claiming they don't want to 'escalate.' 6) Everyone sees Dark a 3rd party decide to jump with Bane and sees that as open invitation. 7) Fun :D :D :D .... Err I mean 'dreadful war' :( I'm with twilights lets all go do some good old fashioned warfare :D Knowing the devs once it happens tourney!
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Posted By: Janosch
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 22:30
LOL Good one! How was that about the escalation of the H? – CONSONE war?
Wasn’t one crucial argument that a CONSONE alliance was (more or less unprovoked)
attacking RHY members occupying the well-known trove-mine claimed by SkB (a
non-CONSONE alliance)? And the rest of CONSONE members started to attack RHY
(sieging) armies when RHY retaliated… In this case we might have a different situation. II and
BANE were negotiating about merging. I am not entirely sure about the cause of
the BANE – NC war. Angrim mentioned something above: “I remember all of this
being about an NS player "surrounded" by BANE sov, but as BANE
thereafter removed the offending sov, it seems clear there is more going on
than that. i am long resigned that NC fights when and whom it wants to.” I would really like to hear more about the reason of this war and I heard others claim that the attack of NC on BANE was unprovoked. When you are about to merge anyway and your partner is under unprovoked attack is it right to join the war? And II-players joined BANE… If the attack was unprovoked and NC members picked on BANE, I think it is reasonable to call for friends. But recently rather NC got help (appart from II). TCol intervened against II members to force those
in BANE back to II. A successful intervention that did not stop II members from
returning to BANE. And now NC is reinforced by their friends? Under these assumptions, I find the issue DARK takes about
it and creating this threat quite reasonable. So please someone clarify who started
this war. Happy fighting :) I am sure someone will correct me, if I have overlooked something... ------------- You like Democracy? Join the http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/topic3448_post42792.html#42792" rel="nofollow - Old Republic ! |
Posted By: Deranzin
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2013 at 22:55
There is nothing wrong in bringing along friends to help you ... you just shouldn't nag afterwards when those friends do not seem enough for you to win. In the case you refer, if SkB and Rhy (let us not get to whom called who first, that war has ended) had been left alone to deal with their conflict then the whole thing would have been just a good skirmish only between those two alliances. Instead, a huge mess ensued and people found many many other reasons to fight, over and beyond the original ones. So, when people start calling on others, things get muddled and unpredictable and the original conflict becomes insignificant in comparison ... so, to sum it up, I have absolutely NO IDEA who started it or who is "right or wrong" in that conflict, and considering the amount of bickering in the last war even were the event were fresh and people still spun them around, I do not think that anyone could get the facts out of a 3-month old conflict. The good thing is, I do not have to care about who is right or wrong because it is NOT MY FIGHT. Leave those two alliances alone to hit it out and have their fun ... and if perchance they are not having fun and need help, hey, let them ask for it and speak their cases for themselves |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 02:03
| Hey Bane-- Can I offer you a really lucrative contract to attack II? ;) |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 05:33
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Halcyon-- I have a solution where you can help your friend and not cause WW5... Why don't you join Bane? As far as I can tell, most of the folks in Dark don't know or have close relationships with anyone at Bane other than you. Then you can support your friend without bringing all the folks who follow you into harms way... I'm pretty sure that other alliances (based upon this thread and conversations I've had) will not become involved in this war besides individual players joining. If they do... well. that's their prerogative isn't it? If alliances pile in, then you can always call upon Dark to help, but I doubt other alliances will... |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 05:51
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And, Halcyon. If folks in Dark want to follow you into Bane, then that's fine. I'm sure NC will recruit more folks to join them... Then everyone who cares deeply about this war can fight it and we don't have a global war which will only severely hurt all sorts of people who have no interest in being in this fight... |
Posted By: Tamaeon
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 05:58
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I wonder whether only Janosch acknowledges the fact; that NC wittingly involved TCol in attacking a defenseless alliance (only traders remained in Insanity Inc allegedly...). Apparently TCol demanded the return of all [II] players from BANE to accept peace. Judging by the timeline of the events, its apparent that NC continued to bring in reinforcements from other alliances, after they forced the [II] players out of BANE. I see so many accusations against DARK for supposedly seeking an escalation; extensive criticism of Halcyon's posts; accusing him of spin (in a semantics battle no less; over what could be construed as an escalation... ). And little (if any) acknowledgement for the basic facts:
Given all the fervent condemnation in this thread; I can only assume that I completely missed the discussion; where TCol's involvement in the NC vs. BANE war was thoroughly questioned, and heavily criticized as a deliberate escalation, by all the critics. Reading this thread has been an absolute joy so far. I would love to know what peace terms have been discussed, and especially on what arguments NC is basing their demand for BANE's surrender. Also, I have to side with Twilights and Deranzin on this; live and let live should be our guiding principle. If these two parties want to got at it, and involve their friends to any end; it should be entirely up to them! The sentiment expressed in all these nice moralistic arguments, is certainly beautiful but utterly pointless!  |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 06:26
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I am now at work but plan to announce publicly today how Dark will get involved in the war. We are open to peace and since Malek is very busy in rl I am now the address. Cheers, |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 06:26
This part of Tam's post makes perfect sense. The previous bit seems to be some sort of justification and so I deleted it as the spin it is. I totally agree with the conclusion. Fight it out. Get whoever you want to join your alliance! Both of you! Have fun! And please, please stop trying to drag the rest of Illy into a World War... |
Posted By: Grego
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 07:23
| Looks like someone gets cought in the web again. |
Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 07:29
Is there a web to be caught in, Grego? (Is there something you'd like to share?) |
Posted By: Ashtar
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 13:20
If anyone wishes to question or seek information about TCOL's involvement in the NC-Bane conflict, they can send an information request to Kale Weathers In game. Remember, good diplomacy, manners and proper grammar are appreciated. However, you may not get the response you want or need - after all , he is a prisoner in his own alliance.  ------------- Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. - Buddha |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 19:14
NC offered terms - Bane refuses to even negotiate on them. Your best bet would be to persuade Bane that the sooner they face reality and surrender the better, rather than trying to escalate things. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 19:27
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Malek is unavailable, so NC should send their their demands to me. I made this clear in a previous post.
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Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 20:55
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Not sure why you're referring to Malek. Two days ago MrSilentNight said he was the new point of contact... ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Evae
Date Posted: 03 Sep 2013 at 22:30
| Why in the world would an alliance at war with another alliance send ANY information pertaining to that conflict to an outside alliance/player based upon their demands? I'm not sure there are many rules of war but I am pretty sure that capitulating to an outside party's demands is simply ridiculous. Good gig if you can get it Halycon, but it appears to me that until you are an actual leading member of Bane you are barking at the wind. |
Posted By: Tamaeon
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 03:34
Cherry picking are we?! If everything people say is spin, then this thread must have become the no-spin zone! lol (Illyriad's own version of the original O'Reilly factor segment  )
Reading this topic has also gotten me a bit concerned about a world war. Facts are dismissed as spin; calls for peace are seen as meddling; interventions are prematurely labeled as escalations etc. If I didn't know any better, I'd say the stage is set for yet another great war. There seems to be no place for reason, and it seems inevitable that yet another batch of good people, will be sieged out of the game in the name of fun. Anyways, thanks for the endorsement Kumo, its much appreciated! |
Posted By: Le Roux
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 06:54
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Wow, seems I missed alot... people still play this game? I thought everyone left with the devs and went elsewhere? ... there is a real war going on? .... much sabre rattling .... still all seems very... dull ? ------------- 
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Posted By: abstractdream
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 06:56
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Subjective ------------- |
Posted By: Halcyon
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 09:41
+1
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Posted By: Sisren
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 11:09
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Just a thought from someone not involved in this one, to those that might think DARK and BANE are new allies... OR that ~NC~ attacks whomever, whenever they wish... DARK's leadership has been in almost constant contact with BANE's Leadership for almost 1.5 years - Tournament V IIRC. Relationships are what makes this game worth playing. ~NC~ seems very methodical in how they conduct themselves, and aims for specific targets. Efficient, Effective, and often brutally honest. They do not attack whomever, whenever they want. They may attack whomever, whenever they may... but what makes them different from anyone else? Maybe the cohesiveness of their group? Do either owe any of us an explanation for why they are doing what they are doing? Short Answer: No. Long Answer: Interesting that we still can see so many posts of false senses of entitlement. You are owed 5 pounds of nothing. (see above for further explanation). TL;DR: I am likely drunk again. Cheers. Keep Calm, Flame on. ------------- Illy is different from Physics- Reactions are rarely Equal, and rarely the opposite of what you'd expect... |
Posted By: twilights
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 11:40
| the sad part that what the true reason of nc attacking bane is so apparent that even i can figure it out....we have less and less players in this game because of the power of a few but i will admit...this group controls the game play...nice job...lets see if u can control this from spinning out of control...should i wear blue eye shade or this smoky grey today???? gosh i wonder what the leaders would suggest? |
Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 12:58
I love the smell of a good conspiracy theory in the morning. Please spell it out for those of us just waking up. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/26125" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 14:31
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Tin foil hats for sale - 10million gold each. ------------- "This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM "a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill |
Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 15:08
"Smokey Grey!" ...... That's an ORDER. I know what you mean though. |
Posted By: Kitti
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 15:22
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Ooo shiney hats i'll take 2 KP :D Although i think they should be half price for anyone who can get through the full 10 pages of this post!
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Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2013 at 15:50
Just made it through all the "diplomatic negotiations" that have taken place thus far in this post. If my calculations are right, with the right planning everyone involved in the great Trove War will have completely rebuilt their armies by now. That means the surviving larger alliances of VIC, VICX, EE, ABSA, TCOL, BSH, DLORDS, and H? are probably all sitting around 100% or more military capacity. But we have already had that conflict. I'd like to see the Crows finally stretch their wings so we can see what they have been building for the past year. There is also Soon and Aesir who have capable military experience and power. Overall now is a great time for a tournament, or a world war. I'll be taking bets on what comes first. ------------- http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">  |