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25Sep2012 Cotter Changes

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: News & Announcements
Forum Name: Announcements
Forum Description: Changes, patch release dates, server launch dates, downtime notifications etc.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=4252
Printed Date: 20 Nov 2019 at 14:16
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: 25Sep2012 Cotter Changes
Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Subject: 25Sep2012 Cotter Changes
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 00:26
A few changes for cotters
  • Scavenging: This is now working properly and cotters will now scavenge equipment.
  • Accurate Completion times: Rather than using a completion time of the maximum possible, then sometimes finishing early - cotters will now show a completion time based on how many items they can pick up on a square and how many units there are.
  • Changing Completion Times: Herbs grow, new minerals discovered, new battles may occur. If new items become available on a square while the cotters are still gathering, each time they harvest (once per hour) they will re-assess their completion times to match.
  • Armies and: Neutral cotters will no longer survive visits from alliance armies and vice versa.
  • Adaptable: Previously cotters after arriving at a square would pick an item and harvest only that, returning when they had depleted it or were full.  Now they will gather everything they can from a square, changing as one time is depleted onto the next via:
  • Priorities: Cotters now gather in a priority preference, with the order and reasons as follows:
    1. Equipment - being most valuable
    2. Hides - being time limited
    3. Minerals  - will come back if over harvested
    4. Herbs - widespread, so over harvesting not too detrimental
    5. Grapes - localised and scarce so careful harvesting is required
  • Accurate Next items: The next item to be harvested will change as the cotter works its way through the items on the square.
 


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Replies:
Posted By: bansisdead
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 00:30
well my cotters managed to harvest some vangaurd stuff without the changes...

but thanks Im sure my cotters will appreciate your hard work and dedication, they told me they are going to work doubly hard!!!, they better...

I dont understand the neutral cotters vs alliance armies, do you mean neutral alliance armies kill cotters, isn't that what happened anyway?  If I send my cotter to a square with a neutral alliance army occupying it, it will die, as they did?


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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/124253" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: GM Luna
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 00:48
The neutral alliance vs. cotters was a bug, that has been corrected. 

You can now only harvest on a spot with an army if the army belongs to you or an alliance/confed/NAP third party, as intended.

Luna


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GM Luna | Illyriad Community Manager | community@illyriad.co.uk



Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 01:12
there are new mineral spawns?



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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 01:16
Minerals can be depleted but then will re-appear at the same location.


Posted By: geofrey
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 01:21
thanks rill... i was scouring the map for new nodes

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http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/a/p/45534" rel="nofollow">


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 01:24
I thought basic minerals also relocate if you try to drop a city on them?


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 03:06
I sent cotters to a square with equipment on the ground and when they got there, they say they're collecting skins? Is this a bug or will they actually grab the equipment despite saying they're collecting skins? 

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Posted By: Callous
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 04:13
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

A few changes for cotters
  • Scavenging: This is now working properly and cotters will now scavenge equipment.
  • Accurate Completion times: Rather than using a competition time of the maximum possible, then sometimes finishing early - cotters will now show a competition time based on how many items they can pick up on a square and how many units there are.
  • Changing Completion Times: Herbs grow, new minerals discovered, new battles may occur. If new items become available on a square while the cotters are still gathering, each time they harvest (once per hour) they will re-assess their competition times to match.
  • Armies and: Neutral cotters will no longer survive visits from alliance armies and vice versa.
  • Adaptable: Previously cotters after arriving at a square would pick an item and harvest only that, returning when they had depleted it or were full.  Now they will gather everything they can from a square, changing as one time is depleted onto the next via:
  • Priorities: Cotters now gather in a priority preference, with the order and reasons as follows:
    1. Equipment - being most valuable
    2. Hides - being time limited
    3. Minerals  - will come back if over harvested
    4. Herbs - widespread, so over harvesting not too detrimental
    5. Grapes - localised and scarce so careful harvesting is required
  • Accurate Next items: The next item to be harvested will change as the cotter works its way through the items on the square.
 


Am I misreading this or should competition be completion in the bolded instances above?


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 04:34
Originally posted by Callous Callous wrote:

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

A few changes for cotters
  • Scavenging: This is now working properly and cotters will now scavenge equipment.
  • Accurate Completion times: Rather than using a competition time of the maximum possible, then sometimes finishing early - cotters will now show a competition time based on how many items they can pick up on a square and how many units there are.
  • Changing Completion Times: Herbs grow, new minerals discovered, new battles may occur. If new items become available on a square while the cotters are still gathering, each time they harvest (once per hour) they will re-assess their competition times to match.
  • Armies and: Neutral cotters will no longer survive visits from alliance armies and vice versa.
  • Adaptable: Previously cotters after arriving at a square would pick an item and harvest only that, returning when they had depleted it or were full.  Now they will gather everything they can from a square, changing as one time is depleted onto the next via:
  • Priorities: Cotters now gather in a priority preference, with the order and reasons as follows:
    1. Equipment - being most valuable
    2. Hides - being time limited
    3. Minerals  - will come back if over harvested
    4. Herbs - widespread, so over harvesting not too detrimental
    5. Grapes - localised and scarce so careful harvesting is required
  • Accurate Next items: The next item to be harvested will change as the cotter works its way through the items on the square.
 


Am I misreading this or should competition be completion in the bolded instances above?
Yep, spell check error. Right spelling, wrong words XD

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Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 06:38
Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

I sent cotters to a square with equipment on the ground and when they got there, they say they're collecting skins? Is this a bug or will they actually grab the equipment despite saying they're collecting skins? 

This still isn't working. The cotters collected 24 hides then returned. 


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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 07:05
Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

I sent cotters to a square with equipment on the ground and when they got there, they say they're collecting skins? Is this a bug or will they actually grab the equipment despite saying they're collecting skins? 

This still isn't working. The cotters collected 24 hides then returned. 
Have you researched the Scavenging technology in the trade tree in your town?

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Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 07:17
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Have you researched the Scavenging technology in the trade tree in your town?

All is now clear. =) 


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Posted By: Smoking GNU
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 07:47
Well, i see my and Joscelins questions on the Equipping Release Announcement thread actually rung some bells.:D


Posted By: IbnSenna
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 08:02
Cotters from [city] arrived at [-x|-y] in [region] but began harvesting [1 Boar spear]. 16 hours ago
Cotters from [city] finished at [-x|-y] in [region] but were unsucessful in their mission and are returning home. 15 hours ago

No bumping, …


This happened twice: is harvesting randomly successful? or do cotters have limits about what they can successfully get (% of adv weapons? — what kind of rounding occurs when there's only 1 item?)?

best regards

IbnSenna


Posted By: Trelling
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 08:03
have you researched scavenging before they were sent out ??

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In a world where data is coin of the realm, and
transmissions are guarded by no better sentinels
than man-made codes and corruptible devices,
there is no such thing as a secret.
Dr Kio Masada


Posted By: IbnSenna
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 08:05
Originally posted by IbnSenna IbnSenna wrote:

Cotters from [city] arrived at [-x|-y] in [region] but began harvesting [1 Boar spear]. 16 hours ago
Cotters from [city] finished at [-x|-y] in [region] but were unsucessful in their mission and are returning home. 15 hours ago

No bumping, …


This happened twice: is harvesting randomly successful? or do cotters have limits about what they can successfully get (% of adv weapons? — what kind of rounding occurs when there's only 1 item?)?

best regards

IbnSenna

Oops mis-copied/edited the notifications, sorry: should read "and began harvesting", "unsuccessful"


Posted By: IbnSenna
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 08:06
yes




Posted By: NumNum
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 09:22
Did the 'XXX are left on the square' get dropped from the notification for cotters? Makes it particularly challenging to know how many grapes/hides/etc are left on a spot. 

Thanks for the adaptable... very nice feature!


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 17:18
The continuously updated harvesting time for cotters might fall in the "it seemed like a good idea at the time" category.  Cotters harvesting grapes now always say they will finish in half an hour, implying they will exhaust the plot, when in fact it will be renewed many times and they will go home with their baskets full of grapes.

Gathering time for multiple cotters on grapes has now become utterly meaningless.  I am not sure if this is some sort of bug or if it is intentional.  If it was intentional, could you consider changing it back?


Posted By: scaramouche
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 17:35
Originally posted by IbnSenna IbnSenna wrote:

Originally posted by IbnSenna IbnSenna wrote:

Cotters from [city] arrived at [-x|-y] in [region] but began harvesting [1 Boar spear]. 16 hours ago
Cotters from [city] finished at [-x|-y] in [region] but were unsucessful in their mission and are returning home. 15 hours ago

No bumping, …


This happened twice: is harvesting randomly successful? or do cotters have limits about what they can successfully get (% of adv weapons? — what kind of rounding occurs when there's only 1 item?)?

best regards

IbnSenna

Oops mis-copied/edited the notifications, sorry: should read "and began harvesting", "unsuccessful"
this doesnt just happen with cotters, i have had this happen with skinners too...


Posted By: Darmon
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 17:51
I rarely read the annoying notification/mail-spam (I feel like its more for debugging and sitting, not active players), but sure enough, in the past two days (as far back as the notification log goes) I've had cotters fail to harvest on three occasions and skinners have failed three times (and I'm pretty sure there was no bumping involved).  Weird thing is, the cotters weren't gathering equipment...


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 18:08
Here's an example of the timing left on my cotters gathering grapes.  As you can see, the "remaining time" indication is now completely useless.

 5Cotters
Location: [670|628] in Qarosslan9m 40s
175  http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/670/628" rel="nofollow - View In Map 4Cotters
Location: [669|630] in Qarosslan17m 43s
140  http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/669/630" rel="nofollow - View In Map 5Cotters
Location: [691|611] in Qarosslan53m 54s
280  http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/691/611" rel="nofollow - View In Map


Posted By: Myzel
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 20:19
The same goes for cotters on hides, by the way. So it seems like a bug rather than a feature - hides don't replenish so that doesn't seem to be the reason for the timer to jump backward.


Posted By: Elmindra
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 20:31
I do wish it would return to telling us how many are left on a square after harvesting with grapes.  I really don't wish to overharvest and now I have to wait for scouting reports :(


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 20:44
Originally posted by Elmindra Elmindra wrote:

I do wish it would return to telling us how many are left on a square after harvesting with grapes.  I really don't wish to overharvest and now I have to wait for scouting reports :(
It appears that Grapes replenish to their base amount at the top of each hour.

This makes it almost impossible to over-harvest a grape site since cotters are pulling about 5/hr each.


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 20:45
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

Here's an example of the timing left on my cotters gathering grapes.  As you can see, the "remaining time" indication is now completely useless.

 5Cotters
Location: [670|628] in Qarosslan9m 40s
175  http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/670/628" rel="nofollow - View In Map 4Cotters
Location: [669|630] in Qarosslan17m 43s
140  http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/669/630" rel="nofollow - View In Map 5Cotters
Location: [691|611] in Qarosslan53m 54s
280  http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/691/611" rel="nofollow - View In Map

It appears that the "remaining time" is now showing the time until the next hourly increase to the gathered amount.  Yes, useless.


Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2012 at 23:42
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

Originally posted by Elmindra Elmindra wrote:

I do wish it would return to telling us how many are left on a square after harvesting with grapes.  I really don't wish to overharvest and now I have to wait for scouting reports :(
It appears that Grapes replenish to their base amount at the top of each hour.

This makes it almost impossible to over-harvest a grape site since cotters are pulling about 5/hr each.
Caveat:  Eight cotters picking grapes non-stop might not see the end of "24/7".   


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2012 at 05:09
Originally posted by dunnoob dunnoob wrote:

Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

Originally posted by Elmindra Elmindra wrote:

I do wish it would return to telling us how many are left on a square after harvesting with grapes.  I really don't wish to overharvest and now I have to wait for scouting reports :(
It appears that Grapes replenish to their base amount at the top of each hour.

This makes it almost impossible to over-harvest a grape site since cotters are pulling about 5/hr each.
Caveat:  Eight cotters picking grapes non-stop might not see the end of "24/7".   

8 cotters at 7 grapes / hr each = 56 grapes harvested per hour ... so long as the grapes base value is more than 56 then 24/7/356 harvesting should not deplete the grapes under the current process.  At the top of each hour, the grape site replenishes to its base value.


Posted By: dunnoob
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2012 at 08:56
Originally posted by The_Dude The_Dude wrote:

Originally posted by dunnoob dunnoob wrote:

Caveat:  Eight cotters picking grapes non-stop might not see the end of "24/7".   

8 cotters at 7 grapes / hr each = 56 grapes harvested per hour ... so long as the grapes base value is more than 56 then 24/7/356 harvesting should not deplete the grapes under the current process.  At the top of each hour, the grape site replenishes to its base value.
Thanks for info; I tested it only once with three scouts while the eight cotters were busy picking grapes, and the third scout reported less grapes than the first and second scout.  I don't recall the details; the square had a limit of about 570 grapes, and the third scout reported less.  Possibly this scout arrived at a bad time, and I certainly didn't know or expect that fresh grapes are added hourly (instead of continuously.)


Posted By: Mogul
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2012 at 09:36
I sent 1 cotter to herb location and it displayed 12h harvesting time. (my cotters harvest 5 p/h)
So I expected to find there 56-62 units and when I scouted it, there where really 59 herbs present.



So that part works as it should.
But one hour later, timer changed from 11h to 1h...







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