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Tournament V - Statistics

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Tournament V - 2nd Anniversary
Forum Description: Forum for the ongoing alliance tournament
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=3341
Printed Date: 22 Oct 2018 at 13:24
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Topic: Tournament V - Statistics
Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Subject: Tournament V - Statistics
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 23:43
Tournament V - Statistics

Above and Beyond
Top 10 largest battles by casualty count
DateRegionAtkDefDeathsDef DeathsAtk DeathsXPDef XPAtk XP
16 Mar 00:00Tor CarrockSloter [VIC][H?]69,81138,82830,9831,434,6051,342,63891,967
24 Feb 16:47TallimarMandarins31 [VIC][H?]66,97828,54238,436555,139401,395153,744
06 Mar 03:00LucernaDrejan [Dlord][Crow]64,12948,56415,565175,196108,52466,672
01 Mar 02:02Farra IsleLlyorn Of Jaensch [H?][StA]59,92832,59827,330174,14392,15381,990
07 Mar 11:00Fremornpepe [Curse][Calcr]57,33539,03518,300206,924133,72473,200
07 Mar 04:11Middle KingdomDaene [VIC][Peace]53,56640,66612,900501,796450,19651,600
22 Feb 10:18Middle KingdomxBloodxPoolx [CCrow][H?]52,24739,37212,875221,939145,33576,604
27 Feb 13:11UrsorSloter [VIC][Champ]48,60734,84213,765176,478121,41855,060
05 Mar 16:04Kul TarDrejan [Dlord][Crow]48,38529,72918,656138,22263,59874,624
11 Mar 18:36Mal MotshaThe Phoenix [DiL][TCol]47,70430,46217,242244,700192,97451,726




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Replies:
Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 23:56
The Amassing Horde
Attacks against the largest massed defenders

DateRegionAtkDefDeathsDef DeathsAtk DeathsXPDef UnitsAtk Units
15 Mar 20:42Tor CarrockFlatulus [VIC][H?]3,5712,3441,2271,790,360631,3501,227
15 Mar 20:32Tor Carrockryo_ishikawa [VIC][H?]215134811,785,248631,09981
15 Mar 20:34Tor CarrockJasche [VIC][H?]9514515001,786,067630,965500
15 Mar 20:53Tor CarrockFlatulus [VIC][H?]2,3941,5808141,782,101629,006814
15 Mar 21:05Tor CarrockJasche [VIC][H?]5112612501,778,468628,533250
15 Mar 21:16Tor CarrockFlatulus [VIC][H?]2,3911,5788131,780,258628,272813
15 Mar 19:56Tor CarrockSaladin The Zephyr [VIC][H?]2,3831,4529311,778,909627,693931
15 Mar 21:59Tor CarrockSaladin The Zephyr [VIC][H?]3692591101,760,453623,717110
15 Mar 22:16Tor CarrockDarrell [VIC][H?]8024463561,760,582623,458356
15 Mar 18:44Tor CarrockJasche [VIC][H?]5582592991,762,547623,307299




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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 23:56
Against all Odds
Highest attacker kill ratios
DateRegionAtkDefDeathsDef UnitsDef DeathsAtk UnitsAtk DeathsRatio
21 Mar 17:55Azurathemackd [Peace][VIC]285270270191514.21
10 Mar 03:46TuraliaInnoble [Peace][Absa]1,4617,1041,35910210213.32
08 Mar 22:03TuraliaAnderrent [Absa][Peace]75933,806698616111.44
12 Mar 11:29KemKallie [CHSN][mCrow]7192,555659606010.98
25 Feb 19:40TuraliaInnoble [Peace][Absa]7591,426695646410.86
13 Mar 10:50Elijalyosemite sam [Peace][VIC]48511,197444414110.83
25 Feb 20:11TuraliaInnoble [Peace][Absa]747731683646410.67
12 Mar 15:57TuraliaInnoble [Peace][Absa]4681,847428404010.70
12 Mar 15:57TuraliaInnoble [Peace][Absa]4681,027428404010.70
09 Mar 11:29TuraliaAnderrent [Absa][Peace]65520,79059461619.74



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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 23:57
Humans are the default option, after all
Casualties by race
RaceCasualtiesCasualties XPAtk
Casualties
Atk
Casualties XP
Def
Casualties
Def
Casualties XP
Human8,098,02123,784,8644,608,30513,060,4003,489,71610,724,464
Elf6,428,51918,636,3713,918,20011,234,6202,510,3197,401,751
Dwarf4,955,91914,190,9243,174,1368,943,7651,781,7835,247,159
Orc1,635,2753,901,345974,7682,134,300660,5071,767,045
Other2,2611,0241,1925331,069491


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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 23:57
Damn you, Trueshot! 
Casualties by unit name
RaceUnitCasualtiesCasualties XPAtk
Casualties
Atk
Casualties XP
Def
Casualties
Def
Casualties XP
ElfElven Trueshot2,762,5428,287,6261,909,3335,727,999853,2092,559,627
HumanKnight2,594,06510,376,2601,199,6794,798,7161,394,3865,577,544
DwarfStalwart1,525,3754,576,125902,8812,708,643622,4941,867,482
HumanPikeman1,381,3042,762,6081,033,5272,067,054347,777695,554
HumanLongbowman1,200,6563,601,968825,5332,476,599375,1231,125,369
DwarfCrossbowman1,107,3773,322,131815,3192,445,957292,058876,174
ElfMarshal1,092,9654,371,860519,0472,076,188573,9182,295,672
HumanCharioteer877,3102,631,930448,3151,344,945428,9951,286,985
DwarfRunerider802,5633,210,252437,5411,750,164365,0221,460,088
HumanMan-at-Arms695,5402,086,620379,8251,139,475315,715947,145
ElfSentinel619,4021,238,804376,427752,854242,975485,950
DwarfHalbardier581,0491,162,098436,788873,576144,261288,522
ElfSwiftsteed562,9301,688,790257,383772,149305,547916,641
HumanArcher528,8121,057,624282,558565,116246,254492,508
ElfWardancer503,6231,510,869324,484973,452179,139537,417
ElfPhalanx494,597989,194308,886617,772185,711371,422
OrcKobold Cohort464,871464,871329,296329,296135,575135,575
HumanSwordsman420,999841,998220,205440,410200,794401,588
HumanMilitiaman399,106399,106218,585218,585180,521180,521
OrcDeath Pack320,0091,280,036127,429509,716192,580770,320
DwarfAxman319,248638,496197,323394,646121,925243,850
OrcClan Guardsman301,030602,060215,578431,15685,452170,904
ElfProtector251,491251,491137,811137,811113,680113,680
DwarfPacksman239,397718,191132,706398,118106,691320,073
OrcDeath Dealer227,240681,720152,411457,23374,829224,487
DwarfYeoman204,167204,167134,735134,73569,43269,432
DwarfSlinger176,702353,404116,813233,62659,889119,778
ElfWarden140,856281,71284,785169,57056,071112,142
OrcFist121,700365,10055,704167,11265,996197,988
OrcWolfrider101,492304,47649,867149,60151,625154,875
OrcFang52,194104,38827,72555,45024,46948,938
OrcClanguard46,69793,39416,74833,49629,94959,898
OtherScrawny Wolf1,0241,024533533491491
OtherPraetorian Guardsman878045404240
OtherElite Praetorian Guardsman302016501370
HumanCatapult15322,950568,4009714,550
ElfMangonel8314,525376,475468,050
HumanBattering ram763,800221,100542,700
DwarfBallista365,760254,000111,760
ElfSiege Hook301,5007350231,150
OrcTrebuchet264,42061,020203,400
OtherPure Earth Elemental19016030
OtherPure Fire Elemental1609070
OrcTortoise16880422012660
OtherPure Air Elemental16011050
OtherPure Water Elemental604020
DwarfBattery-tower5300530000




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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 23:58
No, no, we're truly peace-loving, honest we are
Casualties by alliance
AllianceCasualtiesCasualties XPAtk
Casualties
Atk
Casualties XP
Def
Casualties
Def
Casualties XP
~Tranquil~Vision~ [Peace]2,426,3327,515,7931,574,3854,933,814851,9472,581,979
Harmless? [H?]2,047,8176,259,3321,549,3844,609,872498,4331,649,460
Invictus [VIC]2,004,7545,964,9701,145,1213,118,676859,6332,846,294
The Crows [Crow]1,652,9694,666,075969,4552,665,642683,5142,000,433
Curse of the Wolves [Curse]1,331,0733,689,837981,9852,531,416349,0881,158,421
Dwarven Lords [Dlord]1,242,3183,685,770860,7382,493,052381,5801,192,718
Murder of Crows [mCrow]873,1892,372,315493,8231,295,686379,3661,076,629
EAGLES EYRIE [EE]653,3511,648,816413,3691,001,216239,982647,600
Fremen Empire [FreE]644,2041,678,721311,212801,386332,992877,335
Calaquendi Crow [Calcr]633,4691,798,081250,316694,812383,1531,103,269
The Colony [TCol]520,9841,374,224359,017827,705161,967546,519
Absaroke [Absa]498,4071,474,423268,247758,085230,160716,338
Victrix [VICX]446,2921,378,883309,947911,953136,345466,930
Wheel of Time [WoT]428,9401,148,099239,009649,121189,931498,978
Knights Virtue [~KV~]415,2351,114,061294,294798,965120,941315,096
Worlds End [WE]374,9581,199,795180,694599,831194,264599,964
D'Haran Empire [DE]310,262883,910177,846496,150132,416387,760
Eternal Champions [Champ]292,871932,755185,649592,301107,222340,454
Res Ipsa Loquitor [RES]281,450798,772193,697513,18987,753285,583
SnugglersCrowalition [HUGcr]257,806727,859149,097404,703108,709323,156
Toothless? [T?]225,158601,619170,835447,69354,323153,926
Rhyagelle [RHY]221,168601,74487,985230,399133,183371,345
Free Defense Union [FDU]215,659597,880158,175438,55857,484159,322
The Crow's Wings [CrowW]196,198509,890108,724266,42587,474243,465
Dark Empire [DARK]193,789472,09081,235217,003112,554255,087
Dwarven Druids [Druid]191,725523,01452,332143,721139,393379,293
Crows Nest [nCrow]187,584502,131109,344277,30278,240224,829
The Crimson Crows [CCrow]181,565542,47739,068108,804142,497433,673
Shrap's Mem. Academy [SMA]173,623481,755104,984292,90668,639188,849
Pathway to Aesir [PATH]165,525423,81553,964133,655111,561290,160
Training 4 peace [peac2]163,717376,89783,515197,88580,202179,012
Illy Training Ground [ITG]157,057458,52889,955262,87867,102195,650
Insanity Inc [II]152,611425,78399,044282,12153,567143,662
Æsir [Sir]150,327449,48370,456209,94179,871239,542
Slaves to Armok [StA]143,038313,117106,708212,85636,330100,261
Amicitia [Amt]132,159353,90367,487180,83664,672173,067
The Grey Judges [GRUJ]127,401339,98546,12597,98081,276242,005
Order of the Valar [VALAR]92,856261,06250,602149,70542,254111,357
Exercitus Aureii [E/A]92,017239,70011,50331,66380,514208,037
Dwarven in-law [DiL]67,296203,37512,22136,66855,075166,707
Affirmative Action [A.A.]57,612159,81316,03342,25641,579117,557
Illy Utility Company [IUC]56,512139,93522,59651,08533,91688,850
Skeleton Boar [SkB]53,940146,72930,84685,20723,09461,522
Chosen [CHSN]47,288137,86123,39969,04023,88968,821
The Long Road [TLR™]46,192111,37611,91930,60834,27380,768
Brothers After Death [BAD]42,525114,23927,25270,11215,27344,127
The Nightbringers [~N~]38,969108,78710,15032,88328,81975,904
The Old Republic [TOR]32,66792,9136,89421,58725,77371,326
Lords of Frost [Frost]30,797104,6205,08114,45125,71690,169
Fairy Road Authority [Roads]27,35477,8101,9945,99025,36071,820
Unseen University [-=UU=]20,54051,9023,53210,73517,00841,167
Unaffiliated19,36359,9704,56914,46014,79445,510
Cave of Knowledge [CoK]14,45442,8190014,45442,819
Sherwood [SHRWD]11,17634,8968,82027,4372,3567,459
Illyriads Commoners [IC]10,12229,2559,21826,5509042,705
Alverian Trade Guild [-ATG-]10,11328,7651,5485,5988,56523,167
Skorn [SKR]8,39321,239008,39321,239
Black Skull Horde [BSH]7,41021,809007,41021,809
WE TRAIN [WET]6,23316,9312,2326,2304,00110,701
Havoc Unleashed [Havoc]5,71912,682005,71912,682
INDOMITI [IND]5,36614,2118692,3324,49711,879
True Tranquility [peac3]5,30217,135005,30217,135
Always From Kentucky [AFK]4,15712,4714661,3983,69111,073
Keeper Of Silly Hats [KOSH]3,5087,7971002113,4087,586
Fremen Society [FS!]3,4556,353873483,3686,005
SkullCrushers Horde [SCH==]2,7617,945002,7617,945
The Eve's Guild [TeG]2,7398,323002,7398,323
Love World Order? [LWO]2,5247,2838012,4121,7234,871
The Iconic Knights [IconR]2,1865,381002,1865,381
Faction Supply Union [FSU]1,8324,5573651,0001,4673,557
The Night Hunters [TNH]1,6114,576712841,5404,292
Trade Federation [T-F]1,4074,221001,4074,221
Lost Saints [LOST]1,3274,786001,3274,786
Male Model Assassins [MMA]1,2513,4232007001,0512,723
The Misfit Toys [~3~]1,1603,4981,1343,4202678
Academy of Champions [aChps]1,1333,3261003001,0333,026
Altaira [ALT]1,0392,404001,0392,404
ResistanceisFeasible [RiF]9683,6541104308583,224
~South Seas Pirates~ [~SSP~]8422,526008422,526
The Time of the Elf [elves]5251,052005251,052
Sinister [S1N]45996400459964
Bohemia [Boii]4351,036004351,036
The Siegers [Siege]3891,5563711,4841872
Steel Confessors [STEEL]31883800318838
Outside The Nine [MAGOT]29394600293946
Juke Box Hero [ICON]25775700257757
$MerchantsOfGrandeur [$MoG$]19037200190372
Blue Moon [B.M.]13739900137399
Semper ad Meliora [{S M}]12549800125498
Skull's Training Pit [BSHx]11119800111198
CAMELOT [CMLOT]9515254924160
order of disorder [OD]4949004949
Beekeepers [BZZZ]341150034115
42 Degrees [42º]1925001925
The Liberation [HEAT]1948001948
Free Trade Guild [FTG]81351033
Peaceful Nature [*PN*]130013



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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 23:58
They're a bit fighty in Fremorn
Casualties by region
RegionCasualtiesCasualties XPAtk
Casualties
Atk
Casualties XP
Def
Casualties
Def
Casualties XP
Fremorn2,035,9985,594,0491,134,9812,980,675901,0172,613,374
Tor Carrock1,618,0854,690,549868,1192,381,344749,9662,309,205
Wolgast1,492,1593,989,860968,1892,555,498523,9701,434,362
Mal Motsha1,295,6123,720,772853,7332,261,383441,8791,459,389
Middle Kingdom1,243,5384,080,960812,4142,626,434431,1241,454,526
The Wastes1,215,8713,262,707675,2041,763,427540,6671,499,280
Arran1,212,8613,231,664728,9021,902,353483,9591,329,311
Turalia1,162,2723,749,675795,3312,571,522366,9411,178,153
Ursor1,060,7783,221,891674,2992,080,090386,4791,141,801
Perrigor1,045,0502,958,249689,3411,943,639355,7091,014,610
Elijal1,020,9563,112,145520,4711,509,469500,4851,602,676
Taomist581,3071,692,559385,5881,100,329195,719592,230
Kul Tar536,5601,472,346325,181832,512211,379639,834
Laoshin498,9671,374,125304,463832,240194,504541,885
Azura457,9711,416,772262,111805,928195,860610,844
Keshalia382,4851,134,679237,102711,400145,383423,279
Qarosslan375,9131,058,223223,580605,834152,333452,389
The Western Realms371,487992,700172,354461,549199,133531,151
Kem347,023944,708238,416629,173108,607315,535
Farra Isle336,310836,963187,796420,148148,514416,815
Keppen321,449914,572165,219456,109156,230458,463
Kal Tirikan300,393820,673169,980425,681130,413394,992
Lucerna295,613756,046193,932477,973101,681278,073
Windlost289,350830,865175,809519,858113,541311,007
Zanpur237,758728,306140,102406,36897,656321,938
Norweld217,429545,802135,535319,22981,894226,573
Meilla209,908551,273126,117312,27983,791238,994
Djebeli190,785556,30985,113237,014105,672319,295
Kumala173,148457,42996,567249,65076,581207,779
Tallimar169,619566,11884,164277,37885,455288,740
Lan Larosh138,385423,16984,842251,19753,543171,972
Ragallon85,864246,03544,437124,87941,427121,156
Stormstone Island76,326237,27648,459156,04227,86781,234
Trome50,755134,58829,38568,66421,37065,924
Tamarin49,645148,87430,26885,28019,37763,594
Rill Archipelago49,381144,01028,65986,23320,72257,777
Larn15,55441,0406,20016,4439,35424,597



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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 23:59
The rain on the Plain... is mostly blood red
Casualties by overall combat terrain type
Terrain TypeCasualtiesCasualties XPAtk
Casualties
Atk
Casualties XP
Def
Casualties
Def
Casualties XP
Plains4,989,90414,942,7223,251,4369,648,2871,738,4685,294,435
Large Mountain4,312,70912,149,6142,344,2156,316,1691,968,4945,833,445
Small Forest3,032,9658,655,7171,920,9235,425,1201,112,0423,230,597
Large Hill2,804,9918,225,6331,659,2944,533,0101,145,6973,692,623
Large Forest2,635,9997,068,5051,622,3354,213,0821,013,6642,855,423
Small Hill1,696,5044,996,848983,7152,880,034712,7892,116,814
Small Mountain1,689,4934,598,942920,4452,429,522769,0482,169,420



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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 23:59
Who you looking at? 
Top 25 Attacking Players by Defenders killed (XP)

PlayerCasualties InflictedCasualties XP Inflicted
Daene [VIC]249,233753,615
Drejan [Dlord]216,703532,250
Sloter [VIC]122,022356,290
Anderrent [Absa]100,185334,523
Direb [VIC]125,806309,296
Kurdruk [Frost]100,709295,477
Doozer [VICX]96,965281,646
Korg! [Curse]95,773270,881
Faldrin [Dlord]92,075268,383
Daefis [VIC]81,960232,205
Kale Weathers [TCol]77,162227,341
ScottFitz [mCrow]77,356225,493
Scaramouche [WE]76,233224,984
GregoRokin [Absa]65,266222,496
xBloodxPoolx [CCrow]62,313220,540
Lucens [H?]80,561217,966
RuneMage [Champ]74,113213,263
Empress Olivia [H?]94,274211,140
The Phoenix [DiL]91,606211,031
shakyala [Peace]74,453209,474
darkone [Crow]75,624208,548
Raritor [mCrow]84,861206,900
Mr Damage [VIC]69,201206,357
Tanis [Curse]78,696198,864
john5420 [Curse]74,488192,473



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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2012 at 23:59
I'll take you all on! 
Top 25 Attacking Players by Defenders killed (Unit count)

PlayerCasualties InflictedCasualties XP Inflicted
Daene [VIC]249,233753,615
Drejan [Dlord]216,703532,250
Direb [VIC]125,806309,296
Sloter [VIC]122,022356,290
Kurdruk [Frost]100,709295,477
Anderrent [Absa]100,185334,523
Doozer [VICX]96,965281,646
Korg! [Curse]95,773270,881
Empress Olivia [H?]94,274211,140
Faldrin [Dlord]92,075268,383
The Phoenix [DiL]91,606211,031
Llyorn Of Jaensch [H?]88,281191,601
Raritor [mCrow]84,861206,900
Daefis [VIC]81,960232,205
Lucens [H?]80,561217,966
Tanis [Curse]78,696198,864
ScottFitz [mCrow]77,356225,493
Kale Weathers [TCol]77,162227,341
Scaramouche [WE]76,233224,984
darkone [Crow]75,624208,548
john5420 [Curse]74,488192,473
shakyala [Peace]74,453209,474
RuneMage [Champ]74,113213,263
Mr Damage [VIC]69,201206,357
GregoRokin [Absa]65,266222,496



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Posted By: Anjire
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 00:00
Wow!  Very nice breakouts!  


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 00:00
Thou shall not pass!
Top 25 Defending Players by Attackers killed (XP)

PlayerCasualties XP Inflicted
Sloter [VIC]609,254
Tanis [Curse]558,621
Daefis [VIC]378,032
pepe [Curse]328,364
nipirt777 [Peace]276,172
sooner [VIC]271,017
Kumomoto [H?]268,014
Anjire [H?]244,376
Bren'th [Curse]228,472
Llyorn Of Jaensch [H?]210,537
Rhino70 [Peace]205,349
The Dragon [Dlord]205,240
cuzdeath [Peace]196,985
Mr Andersson [H?]192,317
CanesRule [VICX]186,869
Mr Damage [VIC]171,062
flipper [Dlord]167,327
Lynce [Crow]164,605
Boomer [VIC]162,275
Tinuviel [Calcr]156,738
Waylander [H?]156,503
Bevo678 [~KV~]148,393
jezma [Peace]146,803
Drejan [Dlord]145,744
Shadow [Peace]144,230



-------------


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 00:00
It's a tarp!  
Top 25 Defending Players by Attackers killed in a single engagement (XP)

DateRegionPlayerCasualties XP Inflicted
24 Feb 16:47TallimarAradil [H?]50,546
24 Feb 16:47TallimarKumomoto [H?]43,248
01 Mar 02:02Farra Isleduuvian [StA]42,540
27 Feb 13:11UrsorWealdWizard [aChps]36,288
05 Mar 16:04Kul Tarmetalman [Crow]33,938
04 Mar 00:35ElijalSloter [VIC]30,499
22 Feb 18:47TuraliaRelf77 [Crow]30,295
24 Feb 11:28Kal TirikanTanis [Curse]29,143
01 Mar 02:02Farra Islenaivuud [StA]28,011
24 Feb 06:30Kal TirikanGunfo [GRUJ]25,372
02 Mar 09:23Kul TarCapricorne [Crow]24,828
23 Feb 17:37Kal TirikanThexion [H?]24,817
25 Feb 06:23ArranVermino [Sir]24,441
04 Mar 01:31ElijalSloter [VIC]22,751
22 Feb 10:18Middle KingdomBig McLargeHuge [H?]22,073
19 Mar 15:08Middle KingdomTheGnole [Peace]21,928
22 Feb 21:04WindlostHATHALDIR [EE]21,701
25 Feb 10:19ArranVermino [Sir]20,543
09 Mar 13:21Turaliashakyala [Peace]20,138
24 Feb 22:05Middle Kingdomcuzdeath [Peace]18,794
24 Feb 05:00KemRaritor [mCrow]18,109
22 Feb 10:18Middle KingdomStarry [H?]18,005
14 Mar 17:36UrsorMr Andersson [H?]17,854
24 Feb 16:35Tor CarrockDarthVader98 [RES]17,293
07 Mar 11:00FremornTinuviel [Calcr]17,242

Well done all!


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Posted By: jordigui
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 00:07
Nice job! Thanks a lot!

Sorry, I have a doubt, how are the ratios calculated on:
Against all Odds
Highest attacker kill ratios

Especially the first ratio: 270 against 15 or 19. I cannot get the same result ...

 Thanks,

 TH


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 00:09
Hold the line!
Total causalities inflicted (XP) by Alliance while in defence

Alliance Casualties XP Inflicted
Harmless? [H?]3,527,898
Invictus [VIC]3,100,130
~Tranquil~Vision~ [Peace]3,012,715
Curse of the Wolves [Curse]2,751,923
The Crows [Crow]1,619,034
Dwarven Lords [Dlord]1,406,090
Murder of Crows [mCrow]716,151
Victrix [VICX]679,518
The Colony [TCol]668,293
Knights Virtue [~KV~]648,457
Calaquendi Crow [Calcr]550,256
EAGLES EYRIE [EE]536,395
Wheel of Time [WoT]525,728
Res Ipsa Loquitor [RES]471,662
Absaroke [Absa]345,987
D'Haran Empire [DE]321,505
Worlds End [WE]317,199
Toothless? [T?]283,805
Slaves to Armok [StA]242,935
Free Defense Union [FDU]225,003
The Crow's Wings [CrowW]208,097
Crows Nest [nCrow]203,709
SnugglersCrowalition [HUGcr]195,187
Shrap's Mem. Academy [SMA]192,354
Eternal Champions [Champ]191,526
Æsir [Sir]155,326
Rhyagelle [RHY]152,913
Insanity Inc [II]144,553
Fremen Empire [FreE]141,189
Unaffiliated134,105
Academy of Champions [aChps]124,107
Illy Training Ground [ITG]108,945
Training 4 peace [peac2]102,872
Amicitia [Amt]89,474
Dark Empire [DARK]86,736
Pathway to Aesir [PATH]83,859
Dwarven Druids [Druid]77,815
The Grey Judges [GRUJ]76,093
Order of the Valar [VALAR]72,559
The Crimson Crows [CCrow]71,921
FORSAKEN [4SAKN]70,088
Katz in Hatz [KATZ]61,466
Eagles First Flight [~FF~]50,162
Skeleton Boar [SkB]44,508
Brothers After Death [BAD]35,866
Lords of Frost [Frost]34,839
Illy Utility Company [IUC]32,862
Chosen [CHSN]31,583
Affirmative Action [A.A.]29,229
Illyriads Commoners [IC]25,028
Exercitus Aureii [E/A]23,019
ResistanceisFeasible [RiF]20,396
The Nightbringers [~N~]18,736
The Long Road [TLR™]18,061
Dwarven in-law [DiL]16,211
Sherwood [SHRWD]11,851
The Old Republic [TOR]10,491
The Siegers [Siege]8,892
Fremorn Federation [FF!]6,421
Unseen University [-=UU=]3,783
WE TRAIN [WET]3,520
Fairy Road Authority [Roads]3,316
Alverian Trade Guild [-ATG-]2,082
The Misfit Toys [~3~]2,072
Love World Order? [LWO]1,316
INDOMITI [IND]1,262
3 Headed Dragon [3HDR]938
Arms4Noobs [DRP]785
Male Model Assassins [MMA]411
Faction Supply Union [FSU]410
The Night Hunters [TNH]171
Illy Commodity Exch. [~ICE~]124
Keeper Of Silly Hats [KOSH]81
CAMELOT [CMLOT]61
Free Trade Guild [FTG]8


-------------


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 00:19
Originally posted by jordigui jordigui wrote:

Nice job! Thanks a lot!

Sorry, I have a doubt, how are the ratios calculated on:
Against all Odds
Highest attacker kill ratios

Especially the first ratio: 270 against 15 or 19. I cannot get the same result ...

 Thanks,

 TH
Defender deaths / Attacker Units 

So: 270/19 = 14.2105263

There was a slight fudge to avoid division by zero, but the stats have been updated to correct this


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Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 00:30
wow cool

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Nuisance


Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 00:47
awesome i love stats :)




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Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:10
Really great stats, and I appreciate you going the extra mile on the titles.  As usual, you rock, TC.


Posted By: The Duke
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:18
I 2nd that

-------------
"Our generation has had no Great Depression, no Great War. Our war is spiritual. Our depression is our lives."


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:33
Thanks TC we love this stuff. ^^

One small thing tho... it does seem that the column labelling is a little confusing/incorrect perhaps.

Seems to me like "atk casualties" means "number of units lost while defending" and "def casualties" means "number of units lost while attacking something"... possibly it would make more sense if the labels were swapped over.

E.G.
Unit            ---     Atk Casualties    ---       Def Casualties
Elven Trueshot --- 1,909,333 --- 853,209
Knight --- 1,199,679 --- 1,394,386

OFC it could be that the obvious meaning of the column labels is correct although that would mean that every defensive unit (bows/spears etc.) were mostly killed attacking stuff and every offensive unit mostly came to a grisly end while taking a  defensive position.

Also a cursory glance at these stats reinforces my opinion that the combat system is in need of an overhaul... where is the balance in Orcs seeing less than 8% participation in the tournament by casualties? And the most powerful OFFENSIVE unit in the game has the highest (or second highest if the error I suggest above is correct) casualty rate while in defence... it just shows how redundant most of the defensive units in the game have become.

Edit: There's a thread in 'suggestions' that features more people wishing to see a combat overhaul and some people making suggestions for it.


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:42
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:


Also a cursory glance at these stats reinforces my opinion that the combat system is in need of an overhaul... where is the balance in Orcs seeing less than 8% participation in the tournament by casualties? 
Hi Creature,

Well...

Player Accounts Created by Race (all time)
Humans 50.02%
Elves  30.94%
Dwarves 10.52%
Orcs 8.52%

So it's not totally out-of-whack...!

SC


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:45
Ok that makes sense. ^^


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:46
Createure, I think the low orc casualty numbers are due partly to there being fewer orcs on the server and also to the major orc alliances (BSH, BSHx and SCH) being involved in a war that prevented them from participating in the tourney until the final days.

The fact that more "attack" troops died in defense than attack and that more "defense" troops died in attack than defense demonstrates why vets keep harping on the old saw "don't defend with cavalry."  And by the same token why it's a bad idea to attack with spears.  The attacking with spears part was likely largely unintentional, as spear units that were intended to reinforce a defensive position found that it was taken over by someone else in the interim.  I know that was my experience in nCrow and HUGcr.

Given the number of casualties inflicted by attacking cavalry vs. defending cavalry, to take one example, it's not terribly surprising that many more cav were killed while defending -- unless the surprise comes from the fact that so many use cav to defend still.

Of course "desperate times call for desperate measures" and in some cases cav is the only thing you can get to the square in time.  In that situation, seems like the prudent solution would be to leave only a minimal cav force making time on the square until reinforcements arrive; sweep with cav and reinforce with bows and spears.  This tactic was not universally adopted, however, and if all you have is cav and your cav can't get back home in time to send them out again, you might leave them on the square, as I certainly did toward the end of the tourney.

Edited to add:  Bad idea to attack with spears unless you're an orc with thousands of troops, and I'm not qualified to comment on that tactic, since I haven't seen it used often enough to gauge its effectiveness.  I've heard it can work though.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 01:55
Hey Rill ye I take ur point about teh Orcs (as SC pointed out above aswell).

Regarding your other theory regarding units dieing in attack or defence: Indeed I know by now that you consider it your duty to disagree with every post I ever make on here - and yes I did consider your point already when I was writing that post but frankly it seems considerably more likely to me that the labelling in the columns is simply wrong - there is such a unilateral reversal in 'atk casualty' and 'def casualy' between the offensive and defensive units...

Yes I know. Spears (for example) would have died hard while accidentally attacking a position (other than reinforcing) but I can't believe that this occurred in a ratio of more than 3:1 (with pikemen for example - altho much higher ratio with some other defensive units).


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 03:38
Createure, I have to disagree with considering it my duty to disagree with every post you make.  But perhaps that only reinforces your point.

Wink

I probably shouldn't have sounded so definitive on my attack vs. defense thing.  I was putting forth an alternative theory to explain the numbers; I don't know whether your explanation or mine is correct.  Both are plausible.


Posted By: Bonaparta
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 11:16
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

 
Hi Creature,

Well...

Player Accounts Created by Race (all time)
Humans 50.02%
Elves  30.94%
Dwarves 10.52%
Orcs 8.52%

So it's not totally out-of-whack...!

SC

Greetings!

Could we get statistical data on population regarding race please. Accounts created might be very misleading. 

A small % of dwarfs and even smaller of orcs. If those races would be more competitive in military sense, I'm sure those % would be different (humans have best attacking unit and elves best defending unit).


Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 11:36
sick how there are so little orcs.



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Nuisance


Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 12:17
would love to know what % of orcs in battle were from what alliances and/or players :)

same with other races :)


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Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 15:01
Originally posted by Bonaparta Bonaparta wrote:

A small % of dwarfs and even smaller of orcs. If those races would be more competitive in military sense, I'm sure those % would be different (humans have best attacking unit and elves best defending unit).


I can't speak for Orcs, having never played one, but Dwarves are really under-appreciated in Illy. The Stalwart is the best unit for clearing forest, mountain, and building squares (which happen to be where a large amount of combat seems to occur). The Dwarves also have the best siege engines and the best thieves. For those three reasons, they are a strong race to play...


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 16:04
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

Originally posted by Bonaparta Bonaparta wrote:

A small % of dwarfs and even smaller of orcs. If those races would be more competitive in military sense, I'm sure those % would be different (humans have best attacking unit and elves best defending unit).


I can't speak for Orcs...

If I could be so proud to say that I know Orcs better than pretty much anyone in Illy...

Armies of Specialist units from ANY of the other races will invariably thrash 7 kinds of hurt to a defending army of the Orc spears on pretty much any terrain when they are matched against each other in equal gold-upkeep value armies.

When instead you match these armies by equal training/production time instead of gold-upkeep then every other race will now pummel the Orc even more soundly...

Orcs have no useful diplomatic unit specialists and no other perks [such as the elf fast units, or their +5% mana+spellrange or the human fast T2 range units or the Dwarf seige specialisation]...

I'd say that pretty much explains why Orcs have 8% presence only... IMO the only people who pick Orc are people who don't understand the disadvantages of the Orc units/race or people who are happy to put themselves at a tactical disadvantage for a love the the green-skins from a role-play point of view or whatever.


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 16:22
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:


If I could be so proud to say that I know Orcs better than pretty much anyone in Illy...

Armies of Specialist units from ANY of the other races will invariably thrash 7 kinds of hurt to a defending army of the Orc spears on pretty much any terrain when they are matched against each other in equal gold-upkeep value armies.

When instead you match these armies by equal training/production time instead of gold-upkeep then every other race will now pummel the Orc even more soundly...

Orcs have no useful diplomatic unit specialists and no other perks [such as the elf fast units, or their +5% mana+spellrange or the human fast T2 range units or the Dwarf seige specialisation]...

I'd say that pretty much explains why Orcs have 8% presence only... IMO the only people who pick Orc are people who don't understand the disadvantages of the Orc units/race or people who are happy to put themselves at a tactical disadvantage for a love the the green-skins from a role-play point of view or whatever.


Creat-- Don't the Orcs have the best Saboteurs and Spearmen? (although maybe those are not that useful...?)


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 16:42
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

Originally posted by Bonaparta Bonaparta wrote:

A small % of dwarfs and even smaller of orcs. If those races would be more competitive in military sense, I'm sure those % would be different (humans have best attacking unit and elves best defending unit).


I can't speak for Orcs...

If I could be so proud to say that I know Orcs better than pretty much anyone in Illy...

Armies of Specialist units from ANY of the other races will invariably thrash 7 kinds of hurt to a defending army of the Orc spears on pretty much any terrain when they are matched against each other in equal gold-upkeep value armies.

When instead you match these armies by equal training/production time instead of gold-upkeep then every other race will now pummel the Orc even more soundly...

Orcs have no useful diplomatic unit specialists and no other perks [such as the elf fast units, or their +5% mana+spellrange or the human fast T2 range units or the Dwarf seige specialisation]...

I'd say that pretty much explains why Orcs have 8% presence only... IMO the only people who pick Orc are people who don't understand the disadvantages of the Orc units/race or people who are happy to put themselves at a tactical disadvantage for a love the the green-skins from a role-play point of view or whatever.

Maybe also people who like a real challenge?  I can imagine the difficulty of playing an orc would be interesting to some, and I applaud those who play orcs well, because it is more difficult.  I'm always intrigued when I see Createure's battle reports -- it's interesting to see how you use your troops.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 16:59
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:


Orcs have no useful diplomatic unit specialists 

Don't the Orcs have the best Saboteurs? (although maybe those are not that useful...?)

LOL

Ye Rill I guess you  are right.

I'm always kinda wary about coming across as moaning too much though I'll give it a rest now... people who know me will know I've been saying the same thing for pretty much 2 years straight now... doesn't mean i'm about to give up on the green-skins though. ^^





Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 17:41
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:


If I could be so proud to say that I know Orcs better than pretty much anyone in Illy...

Armies of Specialist units from ANY of the other races will invariably thrash 7 kinds of hurt to a defending army of the Orc spears on pretty much any terrain when they are matched against each other in equal gold-upkeep value armies.

When instead you match these armies by equal training/production time instead of gold-upkeep then every other race will now pummel the Orc even more soundly...

Orcs have no useful diplomatic unit specialists and no other perks [such as the elf fast units, or their +5% mana+spellrange or the human fast T2 range units or the Dwarf seige specialisation]...

I'd say that pretty much explains why Orcs have 8% presence only... IMO the only people who pick Orc are people who don't understand the disadvantages of the Orc units/race or people who are happy to put themselves at a tactical disadvantage for a love the the green-skins from a role-play point of view or whatever.

Createure, I dont have your kind of knowledge about orcs, but I believe orcs have their tactical advantages as well. Orc cavalry is has the same stats as humans, but for 10% lesser attack. Orc infantry is the second strongest after stalwarts. Orc pikes are loads better than any other pikes in the game.

Armies of Specialist units from ANY of the other races will invariably thrash 7 kinds of hurt to a defending army of the Orc spears on pretty much any terrain when they are matched against each other in equal gold-upkeep value armies, because attack is more powerful than defense. It takes 7 Kobolds to kill an attacking knight - It takes only two and a fraction kobolds to kill a defending knight. (9x attack vs 20 defense)

Orc pikes are so damn cheap, you could build dozens of thousands of spears over months and throw at your enemy without hesitation - it takes time and only time to rebuild them - hardly any valuable resources. 

Talking of build times, there are vast regions on the map where every surrounding tile has +3% spear unit production bonus. (deserts and the frozen north in particular). Unlike in the case of other races, a love for the greenskins from a role play point of view pays well for an orc. 

What is the advantage for a dwarf to settle in mountains? Marching against an siege camp of trueshots on a nearby mountain is the worst possible scenario I can think of for a stalwart. What really is the advantage for elves in woods? Humans love plains obviously because of the 'money thing', but other than that? 




Posted By: SugarFree
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 18:04
i thought the dorfs are still the best to attack whatever on mountains? 
or is there something better to clear a siege camp of trueshots on a mountain? 


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Nuisance


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 18:07
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

 
I can't speak for Orcs, having never played one, but Dwarves are really under-appreciated in Illy. The Stalwart is the best unit for clearing forest, mountain, and building squares (which happen to be where a large amount of combat seems to occur). The Dwarves also have the best siege engines and the best thieves. For those three reasons, they are a strong race to play...

Nice perspectives Kumo. I have never played a dwarf and I covet Stalwarts. They are almost as strong as cavalry. But i feel it takes a lot of tactics to play well with a dwarf. For one, infantry is poorly pitted against archers on any terrain, while they do not have any overwhelming advantage over pikes (similar to what cavalry has against archers). Moreover, the best unit to break pike defence is archers, not infantry. Pikeman has very low defence against archers. 

Dwarves have the best siege, but orcs and elves are still better at defending the camp. The greatest disadvantage of dwarves is perhaps their poor cavalry. Cavalry is the king in the game, and the default option when you need to produce more firepower in a short time. It takes a lot of ingenuity to play a dwarf well, though I have no doubt the dwarves in Illy certainly have that.

The only race I think has a real edge over the rest are the elves. They are just too good at cavalry and archers, and even better at magic - with no flip sides at all. (a little less carrying capacity for thieves and a perhaps heavy penalty for saboteurs?).




Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 18:13
Originally posted by SugarFree SugarFree wrote:

i thought the dorfs are still the best to attack whatever on mountains? 
or is there something better to clear a siege camp of trueshots on a mountain? 

Longbows have a defense of 32 against infantry while 20 against cavalry - same line for crossbowmen and death dealers. Trueshots have a defense of 34 against swords and 25 against cavalry. Infantry is not a great choice over cavalry to attack archers. 


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 19:24
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

The only race I think has a real edge over the rest are the elves. They are just too good at cavalry and archers, and even better at magic - with no flip sides at all. (a little less carrying capacity for thieves and a perhaps heavy penalty for saboteurs?).
Elves have one huge disadvantage: economy-crushing dependence on chainmail.  That's why it's worth so much more than everything else on the market other than saddles (upon which everyone is equally dependent and constrained).

-------------
"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 19:41
How much chainmaille do TrueShots take to train?

Ohhh that's right... it's none. Big smile

Quote is there something better to clear a siege camp of trueshots on a mountain?

Yes - it's more TrueShots.


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 20:12
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

How much chainmaille do TrueShots take to train?

Ohhh that's right... it's none. Big smile

Quote is there something better to clear a siege camp of trueshots on a mountain?

Yes - it's more TrueShots.

Big smile


Posted By: shadow
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2012 at 22:53
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

No, no, we're truly peace-loving, honest we are
Casualties by alliance
AllianceCasualtiesCasualties XPAtk
Casualties
Atk
Casualties XP
Def
Casualties
Def
Casualties XP
~Tranquil~Vision~ [Peace]2,426,3327,515,7931,574,3854,933,814851,9472,581,979








Awww, TC......You don't think we are peaceful?  LOL


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 00:23
I still think these stats are improperly displayed and/or there was some kind of error in recalling them.

Harmless?

Atk Casualties 1,549,384

Def Casualties 498,433

I can promise you that H? did not take 3 times as many casualties in offence than defence throughout the tournament.  I still think something is wrong with this... possibly the labelling of the column headings.

If you compare this against Anjire's stats:
Defense Alliance  Attack Casaulties   Defense Casaulties 
Harmless? [H?]  Total              1,188,240                  1,549,384

Indeed it does seem like the defence casualties are the wrong way round... and idk what went wrong with attack casualties.

For VIC according to TC: Att Casualties: 1,145,121 Def Casualties: 859,633
For VIC according to Anjire: Att Casualties: 1,025,750 Def Casualties: 1,145,121

Seems pretty much the same as the H? error.... and all the other alliance stats seem to have the same error.

For me it seems clear that Anjire's stats are correct - he pulled those directly from the displayed in-tournament battle lists and people were (mostly) happy that those were all dipslaying correctly.

I imagine that all the other stats TC put up that couldn't be pulled in-game also have the same att/def mixup and possible error in att casualties.


Posted By: shadow
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 00:41
Does TC mean Attacker/ Defender casualties possibly? Or am i confused about what you are confused about Createure?......lol


Posted By: The_Dude
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 01:03
Creat,

I saw that GMs had other report errors.  So perhaps the in-trouney reports had errors while the new stats from TC are freshly generated from the source data.  Just a theory.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 01:11
Point taken... but nobody was complaining about the ingame battle reports - and pretty much everyone checked those as they were being made.

Also it doesn't explain how I know for a fact that H? did not take three times more casualties in offence than defence and the other discrepencies that I pointed out earlier in the thread.

edit: @shadow: TC = ThunderCat.


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 01:27
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

I still think these stats are improperly displayed and/or there was some kind of error in recalling them.

...

I imagine that all the other stats TC put up that couldn't be pulled in-game also have the same att/def mixup and possible error in att casualties.
The numbers are correct, however the implications by the labels may be incorrect e.g. "def casualties" vs "casualties caused while in defense" - will double check.

-------------


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 01:30
Cool thanks.


Posted By: shadow
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 01:44
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

 

edit: @shadow: TC = ThunderCat.

Yes, he is the one who's stats i was referring to. He just confirmed what i was asking, about the labels. His numbers don't show more attacker casualties. The way it reads to me, there were more defender casualties taken by your alliance. So, i guess i am confused about what it is that you are confused about. Or am i confused about being confused? 
But seriously...."Defense Casaulties" (as TC spells it) does not mean the casualties that H? inflicted on defending units, it means the number of defending units H? lost. Same with the "Attack Casualties"
Had he labeled it Defender/ Attacker Casualties, it might have made more sense....maybe?

So it would mean, using Peace as an example....
Attack Casualties 1,574,385 (units lost  during attacks on flags)
Defense Casualties 851,947 (units lost defending flags)



Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 04:07
Originally posted by shadow shadow wrote:

His numbers don't show more attacker casualties.


Originally posted by shadow shadow wrote:

The way it reads to me, there were more defender casualties taken by your alliance.


Originally posted by TC's statistics TC's statistics wrote:

Harmless? Atk Casualties 1,549,384  Def Casualties 498,433


Do you actually read through what you've written before you hit the 'Post Reply' button?

Yes. I think you are confused.


Posted By: Nokigon
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 19:24
I always love the occasional bright spark- or quite a few of them, as the case may be- who decides it's a good idea to use siege engines to defend. I mean, really, have you really got so little troops you're willing to use something that can move at 6 sq/h (human battering ram under commander with Maxed Forced March- couldn't say about other races, but would say that elves would be a bit quicker, dwarves slower and orcs about the same), is the most expensive unit to build and adds nothing to a defence. I know you might want to get rid of them but really, it's less time-consuming (and commander consuming) to just disband them.
As for the orcs- I think you're being a bit harsh on them, Creat. I have played all 4 races, although humans for longest (I just love cav) and I think that the pure cheapness of a Kobold Cohort as well as it's relatively powerful strength compared to other units is pretty telling. I think that a 20k Orc city (probably would have to be 7 food square, but we'll skate over that), with a Lvl 20 spearmans billet, with the right taxes could probably hold 50k Kobold Cohorts (in minus gold p/h, but you could maintain that rate for a while IMO)- which is a force not to be sniffed at by any standard.
 
I think I had better stop typing before I use another bracket.


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 20:47
Originally posted by Nokigon Nokigon wrote:

 the pure cheapness of a Kobold Cohort as well as it's relatively powerful strength compared to other units is pretty telling. I think that a 20k Orc city (probably would have to be 7 food square, but we'll skate over that), with a Lvl 20 spearmans billet, with the right taxes could probably hold 50k Kobold Cohorts (in minus gold p/h, but you could maintain that rate for a while IMO)

A city of 20K size at 70% tax should be able to hold 100,000 Kobolds, with two spearmen's billet, with positive gold production. But fortunately we don't see such bands around because it takes a lot of time to train that many number of units.


Posted By: Bonaparta
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2012 at 21:45
Hm 100K kobolds... would take to train 192 days with level 20 barracks and 200% sov bonus. It is possible, but kobolds have a nasty habit of dying in large numbers too. Especially because they are often used as cannon fodders...


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 01:36
The main problem is that it takes massively less time (like weeks/months less) to train 33k Trueshots or 33k Stalwarts or 25% T2 cavs than 100k kobolds... which is why spears are basically redundant for anything who takes part in tournaments and actually uses their army... sure if you never lose troops then you can train a strong spear army. Problem is we generally all do use troops.

Troop upkeep should more accurately reflect their training time... if it did then we would see a more even spread of unit use. As things are we will continue to see that the majority of all troops trained+used by all the races will be T2 bows and T2 cavs - as can clearly be seen from the tourny stats.


Posted By: Bonaparta
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 03:26
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

The main problem is that it takes massively less time (like weeks/months less) to train 33k Trueshots or 33k Stalwarts or 25% T2 cavs than 100k kobolds... which is why spears are basically redundant for anything who takes part in tournaments and actually uses their army... sure if you never lose troops then you can train a strong spear army. Problem is we generally all do use troops.

Troop upkeep should more accurately reflect their training time... if it did then we would see a more even spread of unit use. As things are we will continue to see that the majority of all troops trained+used by all the races will be T2 bows and T2 cavs - as can clearly be seen from the tourny stats.

I totally agree. Training times should reflect unit gold upkeep.


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 08:15
orcs and elves have T1 units they can train without costing armor/saddles. I'd favour training time reflecting gold upkeep, only if the unit costs are made same across all races.

It makes no sense for humans to spend 4 leather armor to train 4 T1 pikes instead of spending two saddles to make one knight, even if the training time is decreased. But even now, orcs have good reason to make kobolds. 




Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 08:48
i still just would like to know the percent of spears dead that are mine lol

Orc is cool, dwarf is cool, elf is cool, human is cool
we all cool, esp when you maximize! (anyone else get the Beastwars reference?)

anyway, i agree with Createure

I wish, wish so badly that the mods would have made the %bonus's for commander's race based and not just unit based

at mo I rool with a wolfrider (t1 cav) and Clan Gaurdsman (t2 spearman)
why? cause i want to be able to attack and defend with my spears the best i can against what they are know for killing...Horses 

I just need to be more strict on my self and kill off other commanders maybe...idk, and just say to myself, "spears only"...? maybe a mod could actually make a guide and help us out a bit, i mean really, i dont play games to do the math, i want the math done for me and spelled out in plain english please

all the extra research i had into this game is redic, i want in game guide and better race bonus's and factions last year

but at same time, i know i dont do 100% everything that i could/should be with the knowledge i have, but the time it takes and compared to the time i had put in before updates, just makes me take my time...lol and by that i mean, get it done, but slowly, esp since i dont trust the game to not change 150% again...like it already did, multiple times...(how many orc pics and town pics have we gone through? pretty sure people not here for graphics, just an fyi)

and still though, i know i dont know everything and maybe everything is equal and has been thought of, maybe i just need to find my races "secret" and then the scrawny wolf can be made in barracks, idk, but i do know that i love throwing my spears at walls and/or making a wall of spears and just watching the death toll rise as the troops fall like dominoes 

I do love you guys (all of you, from GM and Mods, to all those who played back when i still had a nub shield, to the new guy that i randomly donate 250k gold to) was just doing what i do best which is speak my mind and question things

i need structure!!!!!!
Ying Yang




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Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 13:03
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

orcs and elves have T1 units they can train without costing armor/saddles. I'd favour training time reflecting gold upkeep, only if the unit costs are made same across all races.

It makes no sense for humans to spend 4 leather armor to train 4 T1 pikes instead of spending two saddles to make one knight, even if the training time is decreased. But even now, orcs have good reason to make kobolds. 



The problem is bigger for elves tbh... they already have a T1 unit that's at least twice as powerful as the kobold with about the same production time but twice the unit upkeep... elves can already train an army twice as strong as Orcs in the same time frame for the same resource costs.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 13:24
For example. Compare these 2 'no leather' specialist armies - built with the same gold upkeep:

50k sentinels would take 3.73 months to train with a 200% production bonus.

100k kobolds would take 6.22 months to train with a 200% production bonus.

Total offense of sentinel army: 1,000,000 Total offense of kobold army: 900,000

Total average defense of sentinel army: 1,075,000 Total average defense of kobold army: 1,075,000

Pretty similar - although sentinels clearly have the edge, as well as performing better on more terrain. And don't forget that the kobold army has twice as high production costs as the sentinel army.

----------------------------------

Now compare these armies trained in the same time-frame: 3.73 months

50k sentinels would take 3.73 months to train with a 200% production bonus.

60k kobolds would take 3.73 months to train with a 200% production bonus.

Total offense of sentinel army: 1,000,000 Total offense of kobold army: 540,000

Total average defense of sentinel army: 1,075,000 Total average defense of kobold army: 645,000

-------------------------------

It does not take a genius to see why Orcs are an unpopular choice.


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 13:37
compared with elves, orcs are disadvantaged. but they are still better off than the other two races.

50k archers/slingers or 60K militia/yeomen will take exactly the same amount of time, but with an additional cost of 50K/60K leather armour and 10-50% lower values for different stats.







Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 13:42
And what you said is very correct. Sentinels have the exact same training time as the spear and they have the stats close to that of T2 archers of other races. 



Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 13:47
well every game has the "easy" button of sorts right? lol

for real, ask, i bet they will openly admit which race is meant for "beginners"


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Posted By: invictusa
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 14:17
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

And what you said is very correct. Sentinels have the exact same training time as the spear and they have the stats close to that of T2 archers of other races. 



I do believe I read that elgea is a Elf native continent if I do recall the lore correctly.  Perhaps future continents will have a different race favor.


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...and miles to go before I sleep.


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 19:07
Originally posted by lokifeyson lokifeyson wrote:

well every game has the "easy" button of sorts right? lol

for real, ask, i bet they will openly admit which race is meant for "beginners"

I vaguely recall from the race descriptions when I started playing that humans are characterized as the easier race to play.  Not sure if that is still mentioned.


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 19:35
Elves do have certain advantages, folks, but do not lose sight of the fact that Knights rule the battlefield (offense > defense) and therefore Humans have the net greatest advantage in the game...


Posted By: Mandarins31
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 21:56
Creature, why are you only talking Kobold?

I can understand Clan Guardsman are way slower, and give less Spear/bow/sord def per gold unkeep...

But Clans Guardsman, even if more expensive in adv.res (mostly cause of 2 spears... but if you specialize in CG production and miss some, they are cheap to buy, and fmates who have too much can give you some), are completing their main Cav killers aim way better! Already, they give much more def power/gold against Cav... but much more important, they give you twice (!!) more def power against Cav per unity of time production... and that is really what you reasearch when you produce too much gold to fill your town with units in a minimum time.

You must have your own tactics and have already thought deeply of that... but in the general overview of an alliance, an Orc who only specialise in cannon meet for against Cavs can be much demanded (meaning only Clan Guardsman production with T1 Cav come for div bonus against cav). The rest of the defense (againt Spear, bows and Infantry) can be handled by the rest of your alliance, and mostly Elves with their trueshots which are good in everything but Cav's def...

Though, i agree the cheapness of Kobold my let room for the Orc who build them, to be able to build other units as well, as T2 cavs, and/or to specialize his cities in something else, like diplomatic units for exemple... knowing how hard it is to build knights, i imagine the pleasure it would be to focus on building cheap units and have lots of rooms to specialize on something new


Posted By: Mandarins31
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 22:12
Kumomoto, on a long run fight, a maxed Elf can be better than a maxed human if the fights occur on mountains: Trueshots are way cheaper than Knights, take less time to train... and you can train them in each city at the same time... while Knights can't be trained in each city simutaneously, or the player could fast run out of saddles (unless he has 100% sov in each city for saddles -admitting you buy the missing livestock on market, and that would become soon extremely gold consumming).

What i mean, is that if after a great battle (like in tourney) both of these Maxed players lost all of their units, and had to rebuild fast for next fight, the Elf one would rebuild faster and with pretty much ease, and, in my opinion, would pregressively catch up and then win on the Human one, mostly if their fights are made on Large hills/mountains.


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 22:20
Originally posted by Mandarins31 Mandarins31 wrote:

Kumomoto, on a long run fight, a maxed Elf can be better than a maxed human if the fights occur on mountains: Trueshots are way cheaper than Knights, take less time to train... and you can train them in each city at the same time... while Knights can't be trained in each city simutaneously, or the player could fast run out of saddles (unless he has 100% sov in each city for saddles -admitting you buy the missing livestock on market, and that would become soon extremely gold consumming).

What i mean, is that if after a great battle (like in tourney) both of these Maxed players lost all of their units, and had to rebuild fast for next fight, the Elf one would rebuild faster and with pretty much ease, and, in my opinion, would pregressively catch up and then win on the Human one, mostly if their fights are made on Large hills/mountains.


Given, Mandarin, but that's if the war was fought mostly on mountains. Knights attacking trueshots on plains will kill many times their casualty numbers meaning they don't need to build anywhere near the same numbers as the Elf... Which is why I love Illy. There are many different strategies and tactics to adopt and predict in one's competition and he who does it best, wins...


Posted By: Mandarins31
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2012 at 23:03
Indeed, there is room for much strategies and planification, depending on many factors. As well, there is not 1 best way to do but various "best" ways, depending and your objectives in the game, in general, that's also why i love Illy :)



Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 02:35
And your "love" + my "love" is what makes this game a love fest, I presume! ;)

id est. let noone ever say there aren't multiple levels of strategy and tactics in this game that are also all tangled up with that old silly thing, human nature (diplomacy)... Wow... we sound like an MMO!



Posted By: lokifeyson
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2012 at 11:57
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

And your "love" + my "love" is what makes this game a love fest, I presume! ;)

id est. let noone ever say there aren't multiple levels of strategy and tactics in this game that are also all tangled up with that old silly thing, human nature (diplomacy)... Wow... we sound like an MMO!


SmileClap


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Posted By: ES2
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2012 at 13:56
I wish I would have thought out loud that the developers would have provided a tournament combat statistics sheet so that I wouldn't end up hand counting the [TLR™] K/D every day.

Edit:

I still have the google doc of my countings of that tourney.. 
Cry

Good tourney though. 


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