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29SEPT11 Moving Cities

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Printed Date: 19 Sep 2019 at 19:57
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Topic: 29SEPT11 Moving Cities
Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Subject: 29SEPT11 Moving Cities
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 18:02
MOVING CITIES

It is now possible to move your cities via non-magical means. Moving a city is a massive undertaking and requires the deepest understanding of storage, inventory management and logistics - as well as sacrifice. It is also slow - a city moving will only move at 5 squares per hour.   

THE "EXODUS" TECHNOLOGY

Exodus is attached to Inventory Management in the City research tab and requires a level 20 Warehouse to research. 

Researching the Exodus technology will allow players will be able to move their cities (beyond the one-off relocation spell) to other locations.

You must have more than one city to be able to move a city.

Moving a city is performed on the relocate city page in your castle. On this page you will be offered a list of your other cities that have the Exodus technology researched and asked where you wish to relocate it to.

You will carry over your military, diplomatic and trade units with you, as well as your research and currently stored storehouse/warehouse items.

Before you choose a location to move to, you will be informed of the consequences of moving, both generally and specific to your city.  Relocating cities move at a speed of 15 squares per hour.

CHANGES DUE TO RELOCATION

As well as obviously the town's location - unlike the current relocation spell - you will not take your underlying terrain resource distribution with you.  Your city's terrain will change both for combat and resources to the new square's terrain. This allows you to change the resource distribution of your city.

You will receive the new resource distribution of the new square that you move to, and will be able to exploit those resources accordingly.  Your existing resource plots will be mapped over to the new resource plots.  Those that do not match will be lost (ie if you move from a 7 Clay to a 5 Clay terrain, you will lose the 2 clay squares). Those resource squares that are new to your resource layout will start at level 0.

SACRIFICES

Moving city can potentially have significant penalties attached to it:
  1. All buildings in the city (both city buildings and resource building, and the city wall) above Level 12 will be levelled down to L12 by the process of moving.  

  2. Once you arrive at your destination square, you will not be able to send out diplomatic units or armies for a period of 5 days.  Your armies and diplomats will spend this time adjusting to their new surroundings, and preparing their defences. They will, as ever, defend if attacked. 

  3. Whilst your city is moving it will require sufficient gold upkeep to support the units it owns, travelling with it, for the period that you are travelling.  You will be informed, when you choose to relocate your city, of this cost - and it will immediately be debited from your town gold.  If you do not have sufficient gold, you will not be able to move cities.

  4. All sovereignty owned by the city will be immediately relinquished.

  5. If the city you have chosen to move is your capital city, then your capital city will change to your largest non-moving city.  We will also be introducing a mechanism to allow players to change their capital city at will.

  6. All your advanced resource production will be paused during the move and continue at the point it left off once your city reaches its destination.

  7. All your unit production will be paused during the move and continue at the point it left of once your city reaches its destination.

  8. All your current quests will be cancelled.

  9. All the spells you have cast from this town and those cast on your town will be cancelled.

  10. Any town prestige effects you have running in this town will extend to cover the move time; so you will not lose any prestige active time for this town.
WARNINGS
  • Ensure you either have enough gold reserves or will have enough revenue to continue pay your units after your town has moved or they will begin to disband.

  • Remember to factor in the gold deduction for moving (upkeep) and the additional reduction in income that may occur from buildings being levelled down due to the move.

  • You will not receive any income for the moving city - either in gold, or in resources - during the move.

  • You will lose any resources and advanced resources your new level of storehouse and warehouse cannot hold.

RESTRICTIONS

Moving to a new location in this way has the same restrictions as the Tenaril's Spell of Ultimate Teleportation (ie must have all your units at home, cannot move to a location that is within 10 squares of another alliance - unless you have sovereignty 5 claimed on the square etc). However it has additional restrictions:

  1. You may only move a city in this manner if you have more than one city. Players who only have one city cannot use this method of relocation.

  2. You need enough gold to pay your units during the time of the move (see point 3 above)

  3. You may not move a city while it is an Alliance capital. You will need to change the capital to a new city before moving (Where would the tax collectors go?)

  4. You may only have one city relocating at a time.  This includes (non-relocating) settlers.  If you have a city relocating, or settlers in motion, and then try to relocate another city, you will be refused.

  5. You cannot have any research in progress and will need to wait until they complete to move your city.

  6. You cannot have any building constructions or demolitions in progress and will need to wait until they completes to move your city

  7. Sitters may not relocate other players' cities, this is very much an "account-holder-only" function.

  8. All your units must be at home.  Trade, Military and Diplomatic units cannot be moving or stationed abroad.

  9. You cannot have trade offers on the marketplace. These must be cancelled prior to move.

  10. You cannot have reinforcements from another player in your city.  These must have left your town.

  11. You cannot be currently under an active blockade or siege. You must break blockades and sieges before you can move. A blockade or siege that has landed (and/or set up) will hold the city.

  12. Incoming units will not prevent a city move (unless they are a returning Sally Forth or a capturing/razing army)

  13. Reinforcements already in the town will prevent a city move.

  14. You cannot sally forth for 5 days after moving your city, or move your city for 5 days after moving your city. 

  15. Incoming sieges and blockades will be changed to attacks on the square that they we going to set-up on, and return immediately after. The sieging/blockading army will be informed immediately via in-game mail that the city has moved.

  16. Incoming reinforcements to the city will be changed to occupations of the square. The sieging/blockading army will be informed immediately via in-game mail that the city has moved.

FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS

Moving the same city again will have the same restrictions as above and additionally will have to wait 5 days as per the diplomatic and military unit pause. Also you will not have to research the move city spell again as it will already be in this town.

However, once the city move is complete, you will be able to immediately move another city that has the Exodus research complete and is able to move under the restrictions.

Once we introduce unit interception, pathfinding and all the rest, it is entirely possible that a relocating city in motion could be destroyed outright - whilst it is in motion.  Of course, the units moving with the city will defend the convoy - but you need to understand that this might become a risky proposition in the future.



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Replies:
Posted By: bow locks
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 18:14
This is marvellous and all very well.  Thank you.

But i have many cities on coastal zones, expecting for a long time the advantages of this.

+7 food ABSOLUTELY OVERRIDES EVERYTHING.

can you please advise whether some sort of balance will be enacted whereby non +7 food cities can get a similar benefit, eg by fishing?

Bow


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 18:17
aww... special siege clean-up unit!
present yourself to report!


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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 18:44
So you can move your city if it is being attacked?


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 18:50
If that's true, it's a good idea.  Every siege target has the choice of trying to weather the attack or, if he thinks he'll lose, fleeing the site.  Territorial behavior will no longer require quite so absolute, uncompromising, and unforgiving stances.

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"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 18:53
I agree, HM, once pathfinding is in place and you have a chance to intercept them... but without it?



Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 19:19
Will tier 2 building upkeep pause or will it keep charging you during the move?


Posted By: tallica
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 20:43
Since we can't have buildings or research queued during the move, can we continue producing units or adv res? Or will these queues also need to be finished prior to moving?

/me wishes he knew about needing level 20 warehouse for the research...


Posted By: Uno
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 22:45
Interesting. Needs clarification about the under siege condition.

Tallica, did you read points 6 and 7 under sacrifices?

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Eréc of Caer Uisc
King of Dyfneint
Indomiti Alliance


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 23:08
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

So you can move your city if it is being attacked?
As per Tenaril's Spell of Ultimate Teleportation:


4. PREPARING YOUR CITY:
  • All your units must be at home.  Trade, Military and Diplomatic units cannot be moving or stationed abroad.

  • You cannot have trade offers on the marketplace. These must be cancelled prior to move.

  • You cannot have reinforcements from another player in your city.  These must have left your town.

  • You cannot be currently under an active blockade or siege. You must break blockades and sieges before you can move.

With the difference that Research and building construction in your city cannot be still going on and all spells will be cancelled. Advance resource and unit production is ok - although it will pause during the move.


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Posted By: tallica
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 23:27
Originally posted by Uno Uno wrote:

Interesting. Needs clarification about the under siege condition.

Tallica, did you read points 6 and 7 under sacrifices?


Thanks, must have over-looked that in my excitement.


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2011 at 23:51
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

If that's true, it's a good idea.  Every siege target has the choice of trying to weather the attack or, if he thinks he'll lose, fleeing the site.  Territorial behavior will no longer require quite so absolute, uncompromising, and unforgiving stances.
Interesting idea, but it would probably have a higher penalty as the armies might well notice you slipping out with the whole city...

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Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 02:15
How about you take only basic buildings when under siege, Ie basic production, and store house.

On another note when is the new food V.s. tax system coming in. Could we have it in a few weeks from now, so that we've had time to re-set up our cities, geomancy etc. by the way, what happens to mana and research points?



Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 02:17
Good point...I think the wall should always be left behind, regardless of "environmental situations."  Leaving that, one might argue that the exodus would have considerable cover, particularly if the army were required to attack any camps at (about) the same time (in reality, it could be attacks that must return before the city actually leaves, or they could return to the city's original location then disappear as "back in town").

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"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule


Posted By: hydraa
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 02:39
future considerations must mean faster siege equipment., it currently takes 12 hrs to set up a siege, the town would be 60 squares away, unless you are setting up leading the target



Posted By: Malpherion
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 03:30
Level 20 Warehouse is crazy. Level 12 should be enough.


Posted By: hydraa
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 03:30
also is the reduction a full loss of the level or does demolition have to be researched as well returning resources?

(should demolition be a preq for exodus?)


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 03:53
you poor, poor people....
level 20 WH is a MUST for any civilized town.
get some culture and build it.
or stay where you are now for ever


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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: hydraa
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 03:53
do spells cooldown during the move?
can a moving city be targeted by diplos, spells while moving (could be used somewhat defensivied for smaller towns.
Does it auto dispell blights that have been cast against the city?
is there a setup time for the move
is there a cooldown time from the previos move  (looks like 5 days)
Can caravans be sent to the moving city?


Posted By: KillerPoodle
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 04:26
So we build WH to 20 to get the tech only to have it knocked down to 12 when we move?  Kinda pointless...

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"This is a bad idea and we shouldn't do it." - endorsement by HM

"a little name-calling is a positive thing." - Rill


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 04:47
Originally posted by hydraa hydraa wrote:

do spells cooldown during the move?
yes
Originally posted by hydraa hydraa wrote:

can a moving city be targeted by diplos, spells while moving (could be used somewhat defensivied for smaller towns.
no
Originally posted by hydraa hydraa wrote:

Does it auto dispell blights that have been cast against the city?
yes
Originally posted by hydraa hydraa wrote:

is there a setup time for the move
no
Originally posted by hydraa hydraa wrote:

is there a cooldown time from the previos move  (looks like 5 days)
yes 5 days (per city)
Originally posted by hydraa hydraa wrote:

Can caravans be sent to the moving city?
no

101010 = 42

Like your style Wink


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Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 05:58
lol



Posted By: Bartozzi
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 08:36
I am on board with nearly all of this.
However, I think Warehouse level requirement should be gradated, so that if I have a town of, say, 150 pop, I don't have to build all the way to 20! I understand the thrust of it, but there is an imbalance there, i.e. a somewhat nonsensical standard.

In short, why not tie the necessary Warehouse level to population?

Addendum: anticipating possible exploits; I suppose then someone could demolish some buildings to reduce population, and thus decrease their Warehouse requirement. Is that really an exploit, though, or a realistic choice and sacrifice? "We're about to move, everyone. Tear down some of those added wings and let some of our citizens go on leave until we've relocated and rebuilt to prior levels."


Posted By: elguapoz
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 12:10
Guys - I like the concept but the building level reduction seems a bit severe.  I find it hard to believe that such a severe reduction in building levels is actually being implemented.  I've been playing for 1.5 years and used a lot of prestige to increase the size of my cities.  If I wish to move them, like everybody else, to 7 food plots then it will take me SIX months to restore my building levels.  And the prestige I purchased and subsequently spent was a waste.
I'll be honest and say that although I am invested in the game and very interested in where it's going this decision is enough to make me consider giving it up.  It's hard to swallow that I'll have to work for 6 months to get back to where I am now...


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 12:32
No one is forcing you to move your cities.  The concept is that it's an alternative to razing your own towns and rebuilding them elsewhere. If you haven't considered razing them then I don't think it's worth your time to move them either. I'm only moving one of my cities, one with mostly lower level buildings, there's no way I'm moving my larger cities.


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Posted By: tallica
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 15:12
For all those people complaining about having to build up the Warehouse to level 20 just to have it knocked down to 12:

The previous alternative for us to move our towns was to have the city besieged and destroyed, then send out settlers and start over.

This new option is 12x better than before, at least now I'll have my towns starting off at level 12 buildings, rather than level 0.

Exodus isn't meant for newbs, it's for players with more than one town, for us to finally be able to put our capitals on 7-food plots without having to destroy our capital and start a new town, and for us to fix mistakes we made when we ourselves were newbs.

Stop complaining about it, if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to move!


Posted By: Smoking GNU
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 15:24
OK, why are the BIG players complaining about the WH20??? The smaller players i can understand, it's difficult getting there the first time, and takes a while. what self respecting city won't have the LIMIT in storage capacity? Thats basically the FIRST building you should get to 20 (except for barracks if you're really militant).


EDIT: Removed a part that related to a post in this thread that doesn't exist (cause my brain is rebelling on me)


Posted By: pfragment
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 16:17
This is EPIC


Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 16:46
Originally posted by tallica tallica wrote:

For all those people complaining about having to build up the Warehouse to level 20 just to have it knocked down to 12:

The previous alternative for us to move our towns was to have the city besieged and destroyed, then send out settlers and start over.

This new option is 12x better than before, at least now I'll have my towns starting off at level 12 buildings, rather than level 0.

Exodus isn't meant for newbs, it's for players with more than one town, for us to finally be able to put our capitals on 7-food plots without having to destroy our capital and start a new town, and for us to fix mistakes we made when we ourselves were newbs.

Stop complaining about it, if you don't like it, no one is forcing you to move!


More than 12x better since you keep all your research also, /me had a city seiged to move just before first announcemnt of exodusCry


Posted By: Kabu
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 16:51
I have two questions:

1) If I lose resource plots, does the system keep the ones with the highest levels? From left to right on the city map? From the first one in the Resources list?

2) From what I read, we don't lose researched skills that required buildings above level 12, but I want to confirm this: if I had, say, researched Ward of Insanity (requires Mage Tower level 13), will I still be able to cast it with my level 12 Mage Tower? In other words, does the level requirement only apply to the research or does it apply to the ability to cast as well?

Thanks in advance!


Posted By: tallica
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2011 at 16:54
Originally posted by Torn Sky Torn Sky wrote:



More than 12x better since you keep all your research also, /me had a city seiged to move just before first announcemnt of exodusCry


I did the same thing, lucky it was my third, my smallest, so I didn't lose too much. But given another week I would have had my other 2 torn down. Instead I waited for a month, keeping everything at level 12 (except the ones that were already higher). I just wish I knew about the level 20 WH, i would have it already and be working on the research, instead of waiting on res...


Posted By: intor
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 06:29
Just wondering, does the teleport spell work on the city designated as a capital, or on the players first city (if they're not the same)? 

If it's the first city, is it possible to first relocate ones 1st using the new Exodus tech, and then use the Tenaril's spell? 

If it's the capital, if one were to settle ones 2nd city and then move the old capital, so that the 2nd becomes the new capital, would we be able to teleport the 2nd (the new capital)? And what about once we can designate the capital ourselves?

What I have in mind is someone getting a city on a 7 food square, and then teleporting it to a location with less food plots, like a mountain (or a location with 0 food).


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 17:05
Originally posted by intor intor wrote:

Just wondering, does the teleport spell work on the city designated as a capital, or on the players first city (if they're not the same)? 

If it's the first city, is it possible to first relocate ones 1st using the new Exodus tech, and then use the Tenaril's spell? 

If it's the capital, if one were to settle ones 2nd city and then move the old capital, so that the 2nd becomes the new capital, would we be able to teleport the 2nd (the new capital)? And what about once we can designate the capital ourselves?

What I have in mind is someone getting a city on a 7 food square, and then teleporting it to a location with less food plots, like a mountain (or a location with 0 food).
Due to much use the magics behind Tenaril's Spell of Ultimate Teleportation have weakened and its use will be once per player rather than once per capital city. You will only be able to teleport your current capital as currently (whatever your current capital is, whether its your first city or another city). This change will take place shortly.

(Currently if your capital is sieged to the ground, you can then teleport your next largest city as it becomes capital or your new town if you only had one town)

Also Tenraril's spell will be added to the Magic tree as an early non-school magic, to prevent very new players from teleporting their capital immediately without first understanding a little about their choice of location. This will happen soonish(tm)


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Posted By: jamieh
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 17:15
just wondering if the exodus move will have to worry about conditions like being 10 squares away from a non alliance player? I didn't see that in the announcement and am hoping that it's not something we have to worry about this time?

Loving it as it stands tho. lvl 12 is painful but then so it should be, we're moving a city for goodness sake!


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2011 at 19:45
10 square rule is good for the spell, but for the exidus move?
i think that if you move the town that way, you know what you do...
so let it be free to move wherever we want to


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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: Silures
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 00:11
whilst moving will the upkeep be paused for the new buildings (tier2) that consume some basic resources?


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 00:30
regarding the 10-square limit, I quote from the original post:

Moving to a new location in this way has the same restrictions as the Tenaril's Spell of Ultimate Teleportation (ie must have all your units at home, cannot move to a location that is within 10 squares of another alliance etc).


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 01:09
Originally posted by Silures Silures wrote:

whilst moving will the upkeep be paused for the new buildings (tier2) that consume some basic resources?

Yup.  

Unless TC says otherwise (this is his baby!), basic resource consumption and production of all buildings will be paused for the duration of the move.

Regards,

SC


Posted By: Sovereign
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 07:07
Okay, so here is a quick question.  Let's say I am using this and at the slow rate of travel, my city has been traveling for two weeks.  In the mean time, someone has come in with settlers and nabbed my sport prior to my arrival.  Now what happens?  Is my spot secured somehow or do we walk our happy butts back and try this again?  LOL


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~~Sovereign~~

"Dreams are the inspiration for the creation of man-made miracles"







Posted By: intor
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 10:17
If that's exactly what happens (they go back again), then perhaps players could send a messenger to the location first, so he can lay claim to it, and you can only move a city to a spot you got claim over? That or occupy with an army...


Posted By: Mara Zira
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2011 at 23:29

Here's a quick guide on moving:

Go to your castle and click on the Relocate seal. There are two bars: one for the spell, and one for Exodus Technology. Click on the Exodus Technology bar/button.

Choose the city to move (of those listed...those that have finished researching Exodus)

Put in the coordinates and click the "I wish to move here" button

It'll say, "Preparing" then tell you if there are any requirements you aren't meeting and how the city will change (resource plots lost and those gained) if you move.

Click the confirm city move button if all is green.

On that page at the bottom, you'll see which city is moving and how long it'll take to get there. Right now, the World Map shows no icon for the moving city. You city is just gone. Icon coming soon.



Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 00:10
10 square radius is too much... should be like 8 squares tops. Ermm


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 00:16
or none at all!
why even do a limit to THIS kind of movement????


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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: surferdude
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 02:15
Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:

or none at all!
why even do a limit to THIS kind of movement????
Zerg attacks Kilotov with his level 12 city on his doorstep! The rest of my alliance surround Kilotov each one with single unt type hoards; close enough that each one can nearly instantly back up any other city - the megablock attacks!

After the flames rise on the smokey ruins the hunting zerg megablock moves on to its next target...


Posted By: surferdude
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 02:25
Originally posted by surferdude surferdude wrote:

Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:

or none at all!
why even do a limit to THIS kind of movement????
Zerg attacks Kilotov with his level 12 city on his doorstep! The rest of my alliance surround Kilotov each one with single unt type hoards; close enough that each one can nearly instantly back up any other city - the megablock attacks!

After the flames rise on the smokey ruins the hunting zerg megablock moves on to its next target...

Which of course is perfectly realistic as shown below:



Posted By: tallica
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 02:33
Originally posted by surferdude surferdude wrote:

Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:

or none at all!
why even do a limit to THIS kind of movement????
Zerg attacks Kilotov with his level 12 city on his doorstep! The rest of my alliance surround Kilotov each one with single unt type hoards; close enough that each one can nearly instantly back up any other city - the megablock attacks!

After the flames rise on the smokey ruins the hunting zerg megablock moves on to its next target...


Except that you have to wait 5 days before sending any diplo or military units from a town that has just finished moving... of course if you build up 5-6 towns meant only for moving and 'zerging' you can time them to all land at the same time, then all launch attacks against a town, but this would be extremely expensive and not a very effective way of swarming someone.

I'm sure someone will try it out though...


Posted By: Mara Zira
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 03:23
I know of a number of people who wish to move their city just one square over (5 food to 7 food), but if they were in a crowded area, they wouldn't be allowed to. I'd suggest adding something like "If the city has claimed level V sovereignty on the square for 30 days that the player desires to move the sov-owning city onto, then the 10-square restrictions turns into a 5 square restriction." It'd be very difficult to maintain a sov at level V at any distance for 30 days, so that would prevent abuse.


Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 04:25
Also rather than organising confeds for a few days, could a system whereby a message can be sent to the nearby players saying "player A wants to move a city X squares from you" be implemented instead.

Also perhaps rather than a 5 day waiting period for military actions instead change it to disabling siege camps from that city for a month. Then surprise attacks are pretty much impossible, unless the target is completely oblivious to their surroundings and arguably should get surprised.


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 08:04
I agree with everything you've all said.

10 square restriction is just too much for people in crowded areas... or even in not so crowded areas it is usually a problem.


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 08:57
Originally posted by Mara Zira Mara Zira wrote:

I know of a number of people who wish to move their city just one square over (5 food to 7 food), but if they were in a crowded area, they wouldn't be allowed to. I'd suggest adding something like "If the city has claimed level V sovereignty on the square for 30 days that the player desires to move the sov-owning city onto, then the 10-square restrictions turns into a 5 square restriction." It'd be very difficult to maintain a sov at level V at any distance for 30 days, so that would prevent abuse.
^^ this.  This is a good idea. Clap

Not sure we'd even need the 30-day rule, as getting Sov 5 has to a) be nearby and b) takes quite some time already.

Will think on it further, but I do like this.

SC


Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 09:01
I think the 10 square rule is a little silly, the biggest problem with zerg attacks is a surprise siege. Which a 10 square radius does little to help. Yet a 30 day waiting period for siege would.


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 12:53
this 10 square rule is killing me...

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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 17:52
10 squares is a pain.  Specially when suspended accounts count...in newbie protection no less.  really?



Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 18:03
what happens if i settle a new town as my old one is moving?

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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 18:28
Originally posted by fluffy fluffy wrote:

10 squares is a pain.  Specially when suspended accounts count...in newbie protection no less.  really?
We will shortly be dropping (suspended) player counted in the exclusion and adding the sov 5 changes.

You could always get the players to join your alliance during the move...


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Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 18:35
sigh.  guess I need to go get confed's with every alliance.



Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 18:53
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Originally posted by fluffy fluffy wrote:

10 squares is a pain.  Specially when suspended accounts count...in newbie protection no less.  really?
We will shortly be dropping (suspended) player counted in the exclusion and adding the sov 5 changes.
These changes have been made...

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Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 20:16
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

 
  • You cannot be currently under an active blockade or siege. You must break blockades and sieges before you can move.

Could you clarify this point?

When you say active, do you mean one is enroute or has landed or has landed AND setup?


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 20:35
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

We will shortly be dropping (suspended) player counted in the exclusion and adding the sov 5 changes.
These changes have been made...

This is good news, thanks TC. Clap

Sov 5 claim will seriously help those guys who want to move their city just a few squares.

Will there be an official announcement/patch-notes just to clarify the exact nature of this change?


Posted By: Iduna
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2011 at 23:49
with regard to changing your capital city (either by moving it or the to be introduced option to change your capital to any city you like) the players who have reached 10 cities have the discovery Famine Management in their capital city. Will this also change to the new capital city ?

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those with no fear are wreckless


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 00:04
Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

 
  • You cannot be currently under an active blockade or siege. You must break blockades and sieges before you can move.

Could you clarify this point?

When you say active, do you mean one is enroute or has landed or has landed AND setup?
After careful consideration:
  • A blockade or siege that has landed (and/or set up) will hold the city
  • Incoming units will not prevent a city move (unless they are a returning Sally Forth or a capturing/razing army)
  • Reinforcements already in the town will prevent a city move.
  • You cannot sally forth for 5 days after moving your city, or move your city for 5 days after moving your city. 
  • Incoming sieges and blockades will be changed to attacks on the square that they we going to set-up on, and return immediately after. The sieging/blockading army will be informed immediately via in-game mail that the city has moved.
  • Incoming reinforcements to the city will be changed to occupations of the square. The sieging/blockading army will be informed immediately via in-game mail that the city has moved.
This may lead to some interesting strategies and considerations for the both the attacker and defender.  



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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 00:04
Originally posted by Createure Createure wrote:

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

We will shortly be dropping (suspended) player counted in the exclusion and adding the sov 5 changes.
These changes have been made...

This is good news, thanks TC. Clap

Sov 5 claim will seriously help those guys who want to move their city just a few squares.

Will there be an official announcement/patch-notes just to clarify the exact nature of this change?
Yes

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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 00:05
Originally posted by Iduna Iduna wrote:

with regard to changing your capital city (either by moving it or the to be introduced option to change your capital to any city you like) the players who have reached 10 cities have the discovery Famine Management in their capital city. Will this also change to the new capital city ?
No, it remains in the original city

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Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 00:40
Just tried the Sov 5 thing and it still wouldn't let me...


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 01:38
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

Just tried the Sov 5 thing and it still wouldn't let me...
Fixed now - was using same town Sov rather than same player Sov

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Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 01:43
Cool! I'll test out shortly...


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 02:03
Nope. Still being blocked by the "You cannot move to a sov square" error... (even though it is being claimed by the same city that is trying to move there...)


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 02:39
Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

Nope. Still being blocked by the "You cannot move to a sov square" error... (even though it is being claimed by the same city that is trying to move there...)
Fixerama'd...  any more for any more?

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Posted By: tallica
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 02:58
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

Nope. Still being blocked by the "You cannot move to a sov square" error... (even though it is being claimed by the same city that is trying to move there...)
Fixerama'd...  any more for any more?


I'll let you know in a few more days...you got me good on the "WH needs to be level 20! you = fail" one, lol (shakes head)


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 03:48
 ClapClapClap
Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Originally posted by Kumomoto Kumomoto wrote:

Nope. Still being blocked by the "You cannot move to a sov square" error... (even though it is being claimed by the same city that is trying to move there...)
Fixerama'd...  any more for any more?

Clap Clap

Thank you Sir!


Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 04:54
Could someone explain the point of the ten square rule? It makes little difference to how long a siege camp takes to reach it's target, and a 2 week wait for diplomatic missions would be far more effective in preventing zerg thieveing


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 06:43
I imagine it could relate to sovereign claims?  Although 5 squares might seem better for that, we still await the Chancery of Estates.  It WOULD be a bummer to have a really big player move in and take over your small city's chance of claiming sovereignty after you'd claimed a spot.  At least the way it is they have to go to the trouble of sieging you.  A larger player could of course settle a completely new city right next to your awesome dolmen, but at least he would take a while to grow.


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 12:41
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

I imagine it could relate to sovereign claims?  Although 5 squares might seem better for that, we still await the Chancery of Estates.  It WOULD be a bummer to have a really big player move in and take over your small city's chance of claiming sovereignty after you'd claimed a spot.  At least the way it is they have to go to the trouble of sieging you.  A larger player could of course settle a completely new city right next to your awesome dolmen, but at least he would take a while to grow.


thats called strategy.
that dolmen ain't yours if you don't claim sov on it.



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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 17:32
After clicking on the I wish to move here button, I get this: http://uk1.illyriad.co.uk/#" rel="nofollow -
Unable to complete request  Issue relocating town: Arithmetic overflow error converting int to data type numeric.
Which doesn't help when trying to move.  I'll throw it into a petition too.


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 18:29
Can't convert int to numeric?  That's pretty weird.

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"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2011 at 18:35
Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

I imagine it could relate to sovereign claims?  Although 5 squares might seem better for that, we still await the Chancery of Estates.  It WOULD be a bummer to have a really big player move in and take over your small city's chance of claiming sovereignty after you'd claimed a spot.  At least the way it is they have to go to the trouble of sieging you.  A larger player could of course settle a completely new city right next to your awesome dolmen, but at least he would take a while to grow.


thats called strategy.
that dolmen ain't yours if you don't claim sov on it.


I agree.  However, it's a challenge to place sovereignty from a newly placed city or as a new player.  Having a zone of exclusion around a city would give new cities and new players a chance to claim sovereignty.  If someone wants to compete for sovereignty, they can settle a new city close by or siege the person closer to the sov -- not an impossibility, just more of a challenge.  (I'm not advocating either action, just pointing out gameplay possibilities.)

I was reflecting that the 10-square rule seems to make it a little more work to claim the desirable sov, making it easier for the first settler to compete even if the person is smaller, and that could be a possible justification -- I was not saying that people should not compete for sov.

I am not advocating for or against the 10-square rule.  I am pointing out an effect that it has that some people might see as desirable.


Posted By: rijk
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 04:13
Haven't spotted in this thread any reply to an earlier question about someone possibly settling a location while your city is lumbering towards it. This is something I was wondering myself.
The obvious answer is that an initiated move locks in that location.
But is that the case?
Otherwise, great!


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 15:11
*

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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:09
WHERE IS MA TOWN?????

better question: how can i tell when my towns arrives? 



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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:44
Originally posted by Kilotov of DokGthung Kilotov of DokGthung wrote:

WHERE IS MA TOWN?????

better question: how can i tell when my towns arrives?
The progress bar on the move city page provides an idea of when the city will arrive and you will receive a notification when the city actually arrives.

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Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:45
Originally posted by rijk rijk wrote:

Haven't spotted in this thread any reply to an earlier question about someone possibly settling a location while your city is lumbering towards it. This is something I was wondering myself.
The obvious answer is that an initiated move locks in that location.
But is that the case?
Otherwise, great!
As above... Star

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Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 16:51
thanksWink

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my words on this forum are from me alone.
DLords official words only come from HighKing Belargyle


Posted By: Ander
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 18:00
I started a city move and found that the 'population required for the next city' has come down because you are reported to have one city less (as your one city is on the move). Isn't this a bug?


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 18:50
Originally posted by Ander Ander wrote:

I started a city move and found that the 'population required for the next city' has come down because you are reported to have one city less (as your one city is on the move). Isn't this a bug?
Yes - and now fixed

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Posted By: Canesrule
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 19:04
I remember seeing that it could be possible to attack moving cities at some stage. This is impossible now as moving cities are invisible and of course the option is not there. Does that not give a great advantage to players moving now, compared to those that move when attack is available?


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 07 Oct 2011 at 19:37
The game is always in flux, and taking certain actions will always be a "maybe better now, maybe better later" affair.  When it is better now, keep in mind that people who wait have no reason to feel entitled to the benefits of historic conditions.  You can't have evolution without change.  Besides which, players who come later will certainly get to skip various unrelated hardships as well.

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"Apparently, quoting me is a 'thing' now."
- HonoredMule


Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2011 at 03:12
[03:09]<Stanczyk> if someone uses their free move onto a spot, does it permanently leave that land there if they exodus off of it?

So:  Can you move your capital city onto a spot using Tenaril's spell, convert whatever that is into the configuration of your capital, and then move your city using Exodus, thereby essentially terraforming a spot?  Or does it revert to the configuration it had before you used Tenaril's spell to move there?


Posted By: intor
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2011 at 10:07
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

[03:09]<Stanczyk> if someone uses their free move onto a spot, does it permanently leave that land there if they exodus off of it?

So:  Can you move your capital city onto a spot using Tenaril's spell, convert whatever that is into the configuration of your capital, and then move your city using Exodus, thereby essentially terraforming a spot?  Or does it revert to the configuration it had before you used Tenaril's spell to move there?

Since the square type is not changed when you teleport a city onto it, I'm fairly certain that once you move the city again using Exodus, the square will return to normal. 

Or rather, I think the type and number of resource plots of a square is checked only when the city is created. Therefore when you teleport your city, you don't actually change the tile, and the city keeps its resource plots because the check is only performed when it's created (or when you use exodus).


Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2011 at 13:16
Something is amiss, since the program allowed me to move to a square adjacent to another city.  The city was not there a week ago, a caravan was blocking the city on the map when I doubled checked (had this location scouted for more than one month) and now I'm locked into a four day move to a location I shouldn't have been allowed to move.    Not pleased right now, the point of the move was to get out of a congested area and have space for increased sov.

Also, the pop is not fixed.  My city is in transit and my pop has decreased by that city's pop preventing me from starting my 9th city (on Aradil).    :(

Just be VERY careful on your moves until they fix these problems.


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CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?

"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule



Posted By: Rill
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2011 at 10:02
What happens if a player's city is exodusing and all the remaining cities are razed?

Does the last city continue to its destination?


Posted By: fluffy
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2011 at 10:14
Or What happens if you move, and someone else settles that spot or an army shows up on it?  Does your town bounce off and move back to its original home?



Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2011 at 15:21
Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

What happens if a player's city is exodusing and all the remaining cities are razed?

Does the last city continue to its destination?

lololol


Posted By: Createure
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2011 at 16:16
Originally posted by fluffy fluffy wrote:

Or What happens if you move, and someone else settles that spot or an army shows up on it?  Does your town bounce off and move back to its original home?



I believe that the city will settle on that square regardless... and I believe that the army will remain sitting on the square as a 'hostile occupying force' until it's time runs out and it returns home.

I know this because I settled a square with one of my own armies occupying the square - and my own army appeared as a 'hostile occupation' - sending a messenger to the city caused the army to withdraw.

The implications of this are unknown to me - but I assume it is a slight glitch and will be fixed.


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2011 at 16:42
Originally posted by Starry Starry wrote:

Something is amiss, since the program allowed me to move to a square adjacent to another city.  The city was not there a week ago, a caravan was blocking the city on the map when I doubled checked (had this location scouted for more than one month) and now I'm locked into a four day move to a location I shouldn't have been allowed to move.    Not pleased right now, the point of the move was to get out of a congested area and have space for increased sov.
Fixed - Was due to a glitch in the over-ride from having Sov V

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Posted By: Starry
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2011 at 17:09
Thank you kind sir!   :)

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CEO, Harmless?
Founder of Toothless?

"Truth never dies."
-HonoredMule



Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2011 at 15:56
Mr Thundercat Sir,

I awoke this morning, grabbed a cuppa and proceeded to survey my Kingdom of now population 1 or 2 (It depends what time of day you look at it) only to discover some sort of super mega weapon of great range and even greater accuracy under the employ of one Llyorn of Jaensch of Alliance H?

It seems Monsieur Llyorn's siege encampment located here:  http://uk1.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/583/-120/4" rel="nofollow - http://uk1.illyriad.co.uk/#/World/Map/583/-120/4  has both the ability to hit my capital which is moving and also to hit it from half way across the map.

Why he even bothered to send a siege encampment escapes me if he has the ability to fire at such magnificent distances? But I will never understand the mind of those ruffians in H?, so why start now.

Anyway, rather than ask you to fix this issue, we at ICON were wondering if instead you could furnish us with this same technology so as to even the playing field somewhat. We do solemnly swear to not use it on newbs. What say you?

Oh, here is a shiny report with words and pretty things. I will be tres interested to see if any of the shots reduce any buildings to below level 12. I am also glad that you decided to forego the penalty of reducing building levels to a maximum of 12.

> FW: Siege Engines from Llyorn Of Jaensch attack your buildings at Hail Dark Blight!
> Received: 17 Oct 2011 14:27
> Original Message:
Siege Engines from Llyorn Of Jaensch's town, Munich of Bavprinc, attacked your buildings at Hail Dark Blight!, and damaged it as follows:
 

Siege Against Buildings Result:
AttackedHitMissedLvl WasLvl Now
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Miss0100
Lumberjack101413
Lumberjack101413
Clay Pit101312
Clay Pit101514
Iron Mine101615
Quarry101413
Tannery101716
Barracks102019
Warehouse102019

Resources Salvaged from the Wreckage:
WoodClayIronStone
143560149831172507166678

Please note that if your Storehouse is unable to store this quantity of salvaged material, it is lost forever.





Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2011 at 23:29
Originally posted by StJude StJude wrote:

Anyway, rather than ask you to fix this issue, we at ICON were wondering if instead you could furnish us with this same technology so as to even the playing field somewhat. We do solemnly swear to not use it on newbs. What say you?
Heh, StJ.

There is no code that says "If X alliance, do Y instead"!

... so I suspect that you are (as is everyone)  furnished with the very same magnificent "bug technology" by default: ie siege a city and it goes into motion via exodus, and the siege still happens.

TC is on it, and this should get fixed shortly!

SC


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2011 at 01:59
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

 

There is no code that says "If X alliance, do Y instead"!

... so I suspect that you are (as is everyone)  furnished with the very same magnificent "bug technology" by default: ie siege a city and it goes into motion via exodus, and the siege still happens.

TC is on it, and this should get fixed shortly!

SC

Tongue in cheek good Sir, tongue in cheek!

Btw, I think Mr Thundercat did in fact do something, as it was pointed out to me a good few hours ago that the siege encampment was turned into a Reinforcing force.

Excellent work me boys!


Posted By: Canesrule
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2011 at 17:35
It is amazing just what a little Judicious protesting can accomplish.


Posted By: StJude
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2011 at 20:25
Originally posted by Canesrule Canesrule wrote:

It is amazing just what a little Judicious protesting can accomplish.

Oh hell no. Please, I beg of you. Thorpunning is still alive and well.



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