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Stop now!

Printed From: Illyriad
Category: The World
Forum Name: Politics & Diplomacy
Forum Description: If you run an alliance on Elgea, here's where you should make your intentions public.
URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=1970
Printed Date: 01 Oct 2020 at 06:23
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Stop now!
Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Subject: Stop now!
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:26
 Hi Guys,
 
 
  Im just going to be quick and say that who ever is attacking new players to STOP as of now, i am sick and tired of constantly giving out more resources to people who have lost them to thiefs.. It is tiresome and time consuming and frankly i was annoyed at the start and now i'm just angry. So who ever it is sending stupid amounts of blights and diplos to small players, It is your one chance to stop, you will slip up one time, your diplos will be captured and they will tell us who you are.
 
Remember: One chance im giving you.. One chance.
 
Note: This has nothing to do with recent events concerning Lorre, this is unrelated and just annoying...
 
Thanks and regards,
 
Harry


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Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart.



Replies:
Posted By: Klandor
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:32
*IF* these events continue, maybe we should post, either here or in a different thread, a list of players tracked that are Diplo-Attacking much weaker players.

If a pattern starts to appear, that way it will be publicly identified, so as a decision on how handle it can be decided as a group.

The best thing for the game, would be for an Alliance to reign in "rogue" members.  If an Alliance wants to turn a blind eye on said actions, they would be show to be either actively or passively complicit in said actions...

Just some thoughts.

Klandor


Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:36
Alliances can do as they wish, they want to turn a blind eye turn a blind eye, its for their hearts and judgement to decide, i however will not be alowing it and will not be turning a blind eye.
 
I want nothing more than to watch this game grow and grow and if anyone gets in the way of that, then they should take warning..l. KLANDOR feels much the same, and so do many others...
 
You have been warned.
 
 
Thanks
Harry


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Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart.


Posted By: Clavius Vile
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:37
In my opinion a t"racking the birde" is not a fair show of evidence, I'm not approving of these diplomatic attacks, but show real evidence.  You can show me a video of a birdie hitting a newb and following the birdie back to someone else, just not your say so.

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[18:24]<Johnny112> books are an advance resource. They're similar to, but not the same as books


Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:40
There is no need to do so, when eventually a diplo will be captured and names will be given.. then there will be your proof!

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Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart.


Posted By: Klandor
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:40
Clavius,

Sometimes that's all one has.  If a user were to post IGM's of an attack, along with multiple confirmation (from multiple Alliances even) of the return destination, would that satisfy you?

Klandor


Posted By: Stifle
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:43
I believe tracking the birds and then tracking the players to certain alliances is a good idea but it would be worthless if the birds are coming from non affiliated players but something bigger and schemier is happeneing here people. It could be an underground work of the same alliance buddying up with non affiliated characters. That could pose a problem. Everyone watch your back. This might get ugly in the next few weeks. Its a coordinated attack im telling you guys. lol  


Posted By: Manannan
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:43
Originally posted by Clavius Vile Clavius Vile wrote:

In my opinion a t"racking the birde" is not a fair show of evidence, I'm not approving of these diplomatic attacks, but show real evidence.  You can show me a video of a birdie hitting a newb and following the birdie back to someone else, just not your say so.

Following one birdie wouldn't be, but if several in different days all land at the same roost I'd say that is pretty suspicious and condemning.


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Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either!

"Manananananananananan, so long Sir, and thanks for all the fish." ~ St.Jude


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:49
I don't know if I'd lump the thieves and the blights together. While both offer animosity only blights offer 100%. It could be two separate people that just so happen to be doing it around the same time. Besides, the blights aren't only being targeted at new players, one of them was cast on me and I'm hardly new.


Posted By: Johnny112
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:49
Hey, I'm the leader of an alliance (Havoc Unleashed) that is getting repetitively attacked, for no cause. I can understand your position Clavius, but I've gotten mails sent to me by players when Zork (who appears to have stopped the attacks) was admitting to attacking us. Well that stopped AFTER we kept up the tracking for over 14 hours. Yes we constantly had someone monitoring those birds, so we know who they were sent from. Zork was northwest, and now that he's stopped we're getting attacked from the South. Again, no cause, certainly no one sending anyone in the alliance mail about a reason, real or perceived. These attacks are against Random members of my alliance, and for no known reason. So yes Clavius I can see there needing to be proof, but following the birds is the best we have, and we are taking screen shots of where and when they disappear into people's towns.


Posted By: (EOM) Harry
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:50
I think the main point here is the thieving Brids, i know i said blights but it is the theiving first and foremost..


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Fool's watch the land when the problem is in the heart.


Posted By: Canesrule
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 21:51
I played Travian for many years. I stopped because unless one used prestige there was little chance of any success in the game. New players had no chance and were either turned into farms or they quit. I do not want this to happen here. New players breathe life into our world and ensure its continuity. Lets all try keep it that way.


Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 23:03
(EOM) Harry I am a diplomat of Havoc. As my leader Johnny112 said earlier we have been the victim of many diplomatic attacks over the last few days. Today we had seven across our membership. From the numbers that are destroyed by seeking rune we can tell that these diplomats are sent in large numbers by players who are very experienced.

I guess that we are not the only Rookie alliance that has been targetted like this so I would like to thank you for the stand that you have taken here today.


Posted By: JohnnyBravo
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 23:07
Not that I agree with thieving new players but I have to say that it is nowhere near as bad as it was when I started playing just 10 months ago. Before the 4 week rule a player could start up, get to 200-300 pop and then other players would farm them while they were still active knowing that if whether they drove them out of the game or not they would always have a constant source of resources and gold.

Now if the worst thing that happens is some people get a few thief attacks then that is nowhere near as bad as having armies hitting your cities every few hours.

Long and short, join an alliance that can protect you or rune up and build some diplo defense. The biggest strength of an MMORPG is that anything goes within the parameters of the game.



Posted By: Aneirin
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 23:09
Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:

(EOM) Harry I am a diplomat of Havoc. As my leader Johnny112 said earlier we have been the victim of many diplomatic attacks over the last few days. Today we had seven across our membership. From the numbers that are destroyed by seeking rune we can tell that these diplomats are sent in large numbers by players who are very experienced.

I guess that we are not the only Rookie alliance that has been targetted like this so I would like to thank you for the stand that you have taken here today.

Well done Harry mate. Hey your still in the old FDU now y'know Wink


Posted By: Darkwords
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 23:12
Basically as a developed character in this game, I view theiving from new accounts as being extremely petty and cowardly.

For a start, they dont even have enough resources to make the cost of diplomats worth while.  I would advise any new accounts that are suffering in this way to build up their mage towers and research rune spells.  Even if you can just kill 10 theives at a time it will prove costly to the perpetrator.



Posted By: Aneirin
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2011 at 23:45
 
Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:

(EOM) Harry I am a diplomat of Havoc. As my leader Johnny112 said earlier we have been the victim of many diplomatic attacks over the last few days. Today we had seven across our membership. From the numbers that are destroyed by seeking rune we can tell that these diplomats are sent in large numbers by players who are very experienced.

I guess that we are not the only Rookie alliance that has been targetted like this so I would like to thank you for the stand that you have taken here today.

Well done Harry mate. Hey your not still in the old FDU now y'know Wink



Posted By: Leungarific
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 04:44
Posting after a troll... bad luck for a lifetime for me Dead.

We've had FDU members suffer such attacks as well, although it's been a few weeks since that happened.


Posted By: Isabella Rayanne
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 21:24
Havoc Unleashed has had multiple more attacks this morning. I am uncertain if this is server time or the player's local time. He reports having killed more than twenty master thieves.

Is there a formal four week rule? I have been here sixteen days, according to when I joined my alliance, and most of the other members of my alliance, who have been attacked, have played for fewer days.

It is my understanding that the original attacks were traced, the alliance leader dealt with it, and that ended that player's attacks. We are still, however, under attack. We have received no explanation for these attacks beyond emails forwarded to us. They appear to be nuisance attacks, as we have nothing to justify the effort in these attacks. We are tracking birds when we see them, particularly after attacks. And have successfully requested bird identification by players who have a better chance at identifying them.

Example: One attack, which has been resolved, but not explained, involved thieves stealing eighteen suits of leather armor, three spears and under ten thousand gold. The thieves had to travel hours to reach that city. Why would a player, with the capability of raiding someone at that distance, attack someone for items that have little to no value to that player?

I have read a thread about one player trying to recruit spies and such to cause problems. I am unfamiliar with the player and have no evidence supporting my thoughts on this. Is it possible that thread recruiting people to randomly spy could be behind this? If so, how can it be dealt with in a reasonable manner?

We have done nothing to deserve this type of harassment. Its harassment, with no benefit to the harasser, because there is no cost effectiveness in these raids. We have used diplomacy to handle the offender identified in previous attacks. We can not use diplomacy when we cannot identify who is attacking us. We can only ask for those who are established, and disagree with this type of harassment, to assist us. Should we identify or receive reasonable confirmation of a harasser, or harassers, we will pursue diplomatic recourse.

(On a note, a person attacked by thieves/spies/whatnot, who cannot view the bird near his/her city, while other people can, is proof of who attacked. That can be used to confirm the offending bird indicator and track it back to the offender.)

Sincerely,
Isabella Rayanne, Duke of Havoc Unleashed


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 21:26
good to know. kilotov takes notes.


Posted By: Clavius Vile
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 21:40
I doubt that LH would assign his recruits to thieve others, he has an obsession of destroying the World Powers, not destroying newbies.




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[18:24]<Johnny112> books are an advance resource. They're similar to, but not the same as books


Posted By: Kumomoto
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 22:11
I disagree. It sounds exactly like what one of these game hating trolls would do...


Posted By: STAR
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 22:36
rather then set you mage spell to slaying runes, change it to seeking runes and set to thieves. Your kill more and may have a better chance of catching the person, if you have basic thieves yourself to defend and capture them with and you havent  killed all his thieves off. If the persons thieves are travelling days to hit you, then it will give you enough time to reset your mage spell.

I would strongly encourage you all to get mage tower lvl to lvl 14 (if you havent already) and mage spell ward of intentions and set to thieves. Your be able to kill up to 400 of the culprits thieves, making you an expensive target.

It doesnt solve the problem but it will help



Posted By: Clavius Vile
Date Posted: 07 Jun 2011 at 22:57
Originally posted by STAR STAR wrote:

r
I would strongly encourage you all to get mage tower lvl to lvl 14 (if you havent already) and mage spell ward of intentions and set to thieves. Your be able to kill up to 400 of the culprits thieves, making you an expensive target.

It doesnt solve the problem but it will help



Level 14 for new players?

Seems a bit of a jump.


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[18:24]<Johnny112> books are an advance resource. They're similar to, but not the same as books


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 04:06
Originally posted by Clavius Vile Clavius Vile wrote:

Level 14 for new players?

Seems a bit of a jump.


Not if you go resource heavy with low taxes it isn't. Mind you, thieves wont help that. Level 14 should just be a goal to work towards though. Even if you get the seeking glyph that's 130 thieves down and often that's enough to make someone think twice.


Posted By: Gemley
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2011 at 23:07
Originally posted by (EOM) Harry (EOM) Harry wrote:

 Hi Guys,
 
 
  Im just going to be quick and say that who ever is attacking new players to STOP as of now, i am sick and tired of constantly giving out more resources to people who have lost them to thiefs.. It is tiresome and time consuming and frankly i was annoyed at the start and now i'm just angry. So who ever it is sending stupid amounts of blights and diplos to small players, It is your one chance to stop, you will slip up one time, your diplos will be captured and they will tell us who you are.
 
Remember: One chance im giving you.. One chance.
 
Note: This has nothing to do with recent events concerning Lorre, this is unrelated and just annoying...
 
Thanks and regards,
 
Harry
 
This is the only post I have read so far on this topic but if my ears are correct and newbies are being attacked for no good reasons I ILL SEND MY ARMYS AGAINST YOU. I may only have 10,000 pop, not much to the big players but I fight to the last man attacking you.


Posted By: Carl Zeis
Date Posted: 09 Jun 2011 at 01:37
I second Gemley's sentiment! I hate that people prey on newbs and I will try my hardest to stop it! Anyone message me if they have one of these problems with thieving and who you see doing it! These shenanigans are completely unacceptable!


Posted By: Johnny112
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2011 at 00:26
Originally posted by JohnnyBravo JohnnyBravo wrote:

Not that I agree with thieving new players but I have to say that it is nowhere near as bad as it was when I started playing just 10 months ago.
Now if the worst thing that happens is some people get a few thief attacks then that is nowhere near as bad as having armies hitting your cities every few hours.
 
Okay I'd like to say that I'd have agreed with that, but I've literally been hit with every single type of diplomatic type (not unit specifically, but thieves, assassin,s etc) in the past few weeks. I can see how it's hard to get hit with troops, but I would say it's just as hard for a player to have their stuff destroyed as it is to not be able to build it in the first place. I have good runes up to defend myself, but then the enemy stops sending those for a while, or sends multiple waves (one day I killed something around 80 thieves in two waves) before another 2 or 3 waves of enemy diplomatic attacks arrived. This would happen in about a 10 minute time period, then about 2 hours later I'd get hit with another couple of attacks.
 
I'm not trying to get pitty here, I'm merely using what happened with me to point out that sometimes, Diplomatic attacks can be every bit as damaging to new players as getting hit with an army.


Posted By: Kurfist
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2011 at 00:47
An army would not be as frustrating, at least then you would know who the hell attacked you.

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Patience is a virtue, resource giving is a sin


Posted By: Celebcalen
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2011 at 11:09
Cause and Effect. Over the past week there has been a lot issues in Global Chat about people being attacked because a bigger player wants their site to settle on or claim sovereignty.

Most Newbes though suffer from sneaky diplo attacks by bigger players who have the "Old Travian Bug" of wanting to farm weaker players. Thieves sent by Bigger players is the most common form of "Newbe Abuse" in Illyriad.


Posted By: Kilotov of DokGthung
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2011 at 13:06
or they just want to spam spells.
and i am currently looking for the evil evil people that spell spam johnny.
that kind of thing is useless and just mean., whit no profit or whatever gained from doing


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2011 at 16:17
Well, it does boost their magic rank, though the same could be done on inactives. 


Posted By: Llyorn Of Jaensch
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2011 at 16:34
Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:

Most Newbes though suffer from sneaky diplo attacks by bigger players who have the "Old Travian Bug" of wanting to farm weaker players. Thieves sent by Bigger players is the most common form of "Newbe Abuse" in Illyriad.


Disagree. The economy is just not there. With the cost to train, upkeep and loss from Runes and Capture, 'farming' using Diplo's is a net loss game. Trust me, you're hurting him more than he's hurting you. It's nuisance value. Experienced players know this.

Likely its the 'new toy' effect. It's probably a player whom has just completed that aspect of the game (research, training etc) and is exploring it. The novelty effect generally wears off.

Its the frustration of anonymity which is the real issue.

 


Posted By: Johnny112
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2011 at 21:52
Originally posted by Llyorn Of Jaensch Llyorn Of Jaensch wrote:

Disagree. The economy is just not there. With the cost to train, upkeep and loss from Runes and Capture, 'farming' using Diplo's is a net loss game. Trust me, you're hurting him more than he's hurting you. It's nuisance value. Experienced players know this.

Likely its the 'new toy' effect. It's probably a player whom has just completed that aspect of the game (research, training etc) and is exploring it. The novelty effect generally wears off.

Its the frustration of anonymity which is the real issue.

 
 
Yep I can agree with that. Most of the time it's the fact that I can't identify who's doing the attacking, especially the PoL attacks (Plague of Locusts) that merely destroy things that I have that irritate me. If it was thieves taking it, I'd be irritated, but I could see the benefit to the opposing player, but this is just aggravating beyond reason. Though to be sure, since none of us (me or my alliance members) have given cause for others to attack us, so it pisses me off that we're under attack.


Posted By: Myr
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 03:50
Originally posted by Llyorn Of Jaensch Llyorn Of Jaensch wrote:

Originally posted by Celebcalen Celebcalen wrote:

Most Newbes though suffer from sneaky diplo attacks by bigger players who have the "Old Travian Bug" of wanting to farm weaker players. Thieves sent by Bigger players is the most common form of "Newbe Abuse" in Illyriad.


Disagree. The economy is just not there. With the cost to train, upkeep and loss from Runes and Capture, 'farming' using Diplo's is a net loss game. Trust me, you're hurting him more than he's hurting you. It's nuisance value. Experienced players know this.

Likely its the 'new toy' effect. It's probably a player whom has just completed that aspect of the game (research, training etc) and is exploring it. The novelty effect generally wears off.

Its the frustration of anonymity which is the real issue.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. I've been on 9 days and was hit by a player with 8 cities. I guarantee he wasn't playing with a new toy. He hit me 8 times in 36 minutes! My rune protection was brushed aside. It takes a long time to get started in this game and being attacked so early on and completely wiped out (aside from a few things in the vault) is completely frustrating. 



Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2011 at 10:37
Just pointing this out but if you really want better ways to track these players then perhaps pressure the devs to release the scrying spell school. I always thought it stupid that there was no way to trace the most damageing spells. But it is easy to trace the ones that hardly do anything.
I believe scrying diplomats was also going to be possible


Posted By: Johnny112
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2011 at 06:28
Originally posted by Erik Dirk Erik Dirk wrote:

Just pointing this out but if you really want better ways to track these players then perhaps pressure the devs to release the scrying spell school. I always thought it stupid that there was no way to trace the most damageing spells. But it is easy to trace the ones that hardly do anything.
I believe scrying diplomats was also going to be possible
 
True enough that it'd be benefical to be able to scry things, but unless a new player (the group in question) researches scrying first (and we all know how bad of an idea that is I believe) then there still isn't really anyway for them to  figure out who is doing the high level magic spells. Sure, they could boost their mage tower to five, do some requisite research to learn a new school of magic, and then learn scrying, but if it's a player large enough to cast high level, long range blights (Such as PoL) then I'm going to bet that the opposing player has enough mana to block scrying or cancel it or some such defensive measure against this type of magic.


Posted By: Erik Dirk
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2011 at 06:34
Ok how about this then. A new player gets attacked. Complains in chat. A large player uses scrying which reveals all moving units as though they were in their alliance in a radius of X. The new player still needs to be on when they get attacked but we no longer have to trace the birds back.



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