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20OCT10 - Moving Cities: Final Rules, Timing

Printed From: Illyriad
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URL: http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=1180
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Topic: 20OCT10 - Moving Cities: Final Rules, Timing
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Subject: 20OCT10 - Moving Cities: Final Rules, Timing
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2010 at 14:44
Hi all,

Please read the following very carefully. 

There are some changes from the originally proposed effects of moving city.

Whilst there are other changes (and so you should read the entire post carefully), three important things to highlight are:
  • The spell no longer has a casting time. So long as you meet all the criteria, moving is instantaneous

  • With regard to incoming attacks, diplomatic missions and trades before you move, these will now complete as originally intended rather than being cancelled and sent home.  Incoming attacks, diplomatic missions and trades will reroute to your new location.

  • THIS SPELL IS LIVE AND AVAILABLE TO CAST NOW.

    Instructions on how to cast this spell and move your city are below (Part 5)

The complete rules for moving cities using Tenaril's Spell of Ultimate Teleportation are as follows:

1. TIMING & AVAILABILITY:
  • This spell will go live on Wednesday 20OCT10 at 14:00 Server Time

  • It will cease to be available on Wednesday 17NOV10 at 14:00 Server Time

  • Any city (including new players) settled up until Wednesday 17NOV10 13:59 can cast the spell and move their city - so now is an excellent time to bring your friends to the game; they will be able to settle near you by default.

2. RESTRICTIONS ON CASTING:
  • Can only be cast once per city

  • Can only be cast by the account owner - account sitters cannot relocate cities

3. RESTRICTIONS ON DESTINATION:
  • Must be on the map (ie between -1000|-1000 and 1000|1000)

  • Cannot be an "Unsettlable" square.  These are:

    • Impassable Terrain (ie Lake, Lock, Volcanic Peak, Fiery Mountain, Canyon or Swampland

    • NPC Squares (ie Standing Stones, Barrow, Abandoned Mineshaft, Ruined Tower, Ancient Forest, Dolmen, Ice Cave or Petrified Forest)

    • Water Squares (ie Fresh Water, Tidal Water, Shallow Salt Water or Ocean)

    • Trade Hub square, or any square immediately bordering a Trade Hub

    • Square that contains *no* food resource

      Even though you are bringing your underlying resources with you, squares with zero food are considered "unsettlable"

  • Cannot be a square that is already settled by another player

  • Cannot be a square that has Sovereignty being claimed on it

  • Cannot be a square that is within 10 squares' radius of another player who is not in your alliance, nor in an alliance that is confederated with yours
    • Exemption for inactive accounts.  You may move to within 10 squares of an inactive player.  Inactive players are players who either have zero population and have not logged in for 1 week, or have more than zero population but have not logged in for 4 weeks.

4. PREPARING YOUR CITY:
  • All your units must be at home.  Trade, Military and Diplomatic units cannot be moving or stationed abroad. (NB Alliance Tax Collectors are exempt from this rule, and will redirect themselves back to the Alliance Capital, wherever it may be).

  • You cannot have trade offers on the marketplace. These must be cancelled prior to move.

  • You cannot have reinforcements from another player in your city.  These must have left your town.

  • You cannot be currently under an active blockade or siege. You must break blockades and sieges before you can move.

  • Spells cast and currently active (runes, geomancy etc) are unaffected by the move - you do not need to cancel or dispel these before you move.

  • Research and building construction in your city is unaffected - you can be building something or researching something when you move, and it will carry over with your city just fine.  Unless otherwise listed above, all normal city functions continue "as is".

5. HOW TO CAST THE SPELL (AND MOVE YOUR CITY)

  • Go to your Town map

  • Click on the Castle

  • Click on the button on the Castle Summary page, labelled "Move City via Tenaril's Spell"

  • Put in the co-ordinates of where you wish to move to

    Be very careful with this, and make sure you get the coordinates right (be especially careful of the negative sign where appropriate).  If you get the coordinates wrong and move your city to the wrong location, THERE IS NO RECOURSE VIA PETITIONS OR OTHERWISE.

  • Press the button labelled "I wish to move here"

  • You will be told whether this move is allowed, and if not - precisely why not.

  • If you are able to move your city, then a button marked "Confirm City Move" will appear, and once pressed, your city will instantly move to the new location.

6. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU MOVE
  • Your entire city - with units, underlying resource distribution etc - moves to the new location.  However, for the purposes of combat resolution, your city will now take on the new attributes of the terrain you have settled upon. (ie if you move from mountains to plains, for combat purposes you are now treated as living on plains)

  • Any Sovereign claims and structures this city has are lost.

  • Any inbound trades, attacks, or reinforcements are NOT CANCELLED, but re-routed to your new city.  Their arrival time remains the same as it was before the move.

  • Everything else remains the same as it was before you moved.

As before, I'm posting some thoughts about the future (this is a repeat of an earlier post) regarding things you should consider when moving.

Best wishes,

GM Stormcrow





Replies:
Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2010 at 14:57
LIFE, THE UNIVERSE & EVERYTHING
aka Where do I want to live? What will water do? How will Factions work? What will you change in the future?

This question is fraught with difficulty, and we can only offer advice.

The fact is that we will be introducing different functionality into Illyriad at later points, and this may change the 'nature' of the various map locations.

As an example, the East and West sides of the map may be opened out in the future to new terrain, and perhaps joined up with the seas and oceans in the south of the world. Or they may not.

As another example, the first release of Factions will have every faction as a static entity; so if you choose to situate your city right next to the Hub of the "Outlaw Bandits" Faction, nothing will happen and you will suffer no penalty.  However, at a later stage we may introduce some Faction AI whereby the Outlaw Bandits may roam around their area of the map, intercepting and ambushing trade caravans - and this *will* affect you (unless you make friends with the Outlaw Bandit Faction, of course).

As a third example, you might settle by some tidal sea because you really want to get involved in ship-building and naval warfare once they arrive - but when we actually come round to introducing navies we decide that there will be a difference between the types of boats you can operate on rivers vs tidal water vs sea vs ocean - and the ship you want to build is a deep-water ship bristling with ballistas, but you've built your city on a river and now feel anger that you can't build the ship of your dreams.

What I'm trying to impart here is that, as you all know, we are in a continuous development cycle of adding things to the game.

So the decisions you make now as to where to move your city will inevitably be decisions you're making without the full knowledge of what might happen in the future.  In most cases we too don't even know the mechanics of what we have planned to introduce.  In some cases we don't even know that we're going to introduce something at the moment, because we haven't thought of it yet.

Make plans for the now, and keep a weather eye on the future, but don't expect it to turn out exactly how you planned it.

This piece of advice applies to everything you do in the game - we try not to swing The Changebat Of Doom too often (sometimes its a Buffbat and sometimes its a Nerfbat; everyone has an opinion on what kind of bat it is), but we will be changing things, continuously, regularly and comprehensively - as that's what moves a game along.  All of us here in the dev and content team are gamers - we believe this is incredibly important to make Illyriad better than the rest - and so we really, genuinely understand the pain brought by a large release that affects a lot of the ingame world.  For many of us sitting on the other side of the fence has been quite an eye-opener!

There are a few "general principles" I'd like to impart at this point that may affect your planning of where to relocate to, or whether you want to relocate at all - but please bear in mind that nothing below is set in stone. 

Plan your city move based on the information here if you wish, but we're not guaranteeing anything.

You might wish to leave your city where it is rather than move it.  There are advantages for doing so in that the existing terrain you have directly around your city (and your sovereign squares) is likely to contain more diversity than somewhere else on the map.

THINGS THAT MIGHT HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE THAT YOU SHOULD CONSIDER BEFORE YOU MOVE YOUR CITY
  • NPC FACTIONS & TRADE SCARCITY

    We intend Factions to play a major role in Illyriad, and we intend them to ultimately have a very active 'learning' AI.

    Each Faction will consume different kinds of goods in different kinds of quantities, and will also produce different kinds of goods (regular goods as well as components for crafting, when this is introduced).

    Each Faction will have its own friends and enemies, and the more friendly you become with a particular faction the more your relationship with their enemies will deteriorate - and vice versa.

    Different Factions will have different levels of tolerance to outsiders (ie you).

    The "danger" to players from nearby Factions generally increases as you move further from the center of the map, though this increase is not linear.

    For example, The Council of Illyriad faction, located in the center of the map, is tolerant of all players and won't generally interfere in what they do.  However, if you settle your city right next to (eg) the far-North-East Hub of the Undead Faction called the "City of Eternal Damnation and Death to all Living Things" then - when Faction AI is released - you shouldn't be surprised if your life is more difficult because of your choice.

    When we release Factions onto the map we will provide brief descriptions of each Faction, what the Faction stands for and who they generally like or dislike.  We will specifically mark those Factions that are best avoided because they hate everyone, although we strongly recommend that you use common sense regarding factions nearby your relocation point.  An Elf who settles next to a Goblin Hub Capital City is likely to be sorry in the future.

  • WATER FEATURES & NAVIES

    Some of the things we hope to do are:

    Introduce restrictions on the type of ship or boat and the kind of water it can traverse.  For example, small fishing boats might operate on lakes and tidal water, but not seas and oceans; or Barges might only operate on rivers and lakes.

    Introduce canal-building (the "road of the water") to connect up previously unconnected rivers and lakes - although this will be a fairly major endeavour.

    Allow Sovereignty claims on water features, and introduce NPC squares on water, and we do intend on introducing fishing, whaling, oyster farming and a wide variety of other maritime and freshwater possibilities.

    Introduce Siege capable ships - though we're not anticipating introducing amphibious warfare, so you won't be able to Storm and Capture or Storm and Raze from a ship.

    Armies will not be able to occupy, siege or blockade from water tiles - although ships will.

    Before you all rush off to the sea/river/island there are also downsides to consider; some of which I will outline here:

    We do intend sea monsters, shoals, reefs and whirlpools and the like, as well as weather conditions from squalls and fogs and possibly up to hurricanes.  Being on the water is a dangerous business, and for those people who don't like "unforeseeable events", the water isn't necessarily a good place to concentrate on.

    We intend to introduce a slew of new buildings for maritime purposes.  Shipwrights, ship building yards, harbormaster's offices, docks, dockside warehouses, lighthouses and so on.

    One thing I can guarantee is that anyone and everyone who wishes to run water-based units (boats, barges and ships) will need to devote *at least* one town plot to this purpose. 

    A player who just needs a few boats to carry his trade units across a river probably won't need more than a single "dock" building. 

    On the other hand, a full-fledged trading port with access to rivers, tidal waters, seas and deep (ocean) waters, who wants to use his town as a kind of transport "hub" - loading and unloading goods and passengers, collecting taxes & tolls from other players who use the facilities etc should probably plan on committing more than half his city to this purpose.

    The moon will affect tides, and tides will affect what you can and can't do on water (depending on ship type) - as will a day/night cycle mirroring the server clock.  Moving a ship to a port at midnight (if the port doesn't have a lighthouse) might be inadvisable.  And yes, before you ask, we are sympathetic to player's timezones.

    If you choose to be on an Island, you will - ultimately - have additional logistical considerations.  For example, to engage on the mainland you will need to board a ship with units and then disembark them.

  • TRAVEL TIMES & TERRAIN

    Pathfinding (in this context) is a mechanism by which your travelling units will find the best path from point A to point B.  At the moment, all units travel linearly, directly across the map to their destination, but in the future they will find their own path.

    We intend to allow players some control over the paths their units take (setting waypoints for example, or areas / players to avoid whilst moving).

    Once pathfinding is introduced, your choice of terrain and the terrain your units pass over will affect movement speed.

    The effect that terrain has on movement speed will follow common sense principles.  Crossing a very high mountain range will take a lot of time.  Going through the thickest, densest jungle will take a lot of time.  Walking across some low hills won't take too long, and crossing plains will be fast.  Boat transport will be the fastest of all.

    We do intend to introduce road-building (of various types of road, from dirt tracks to paved highways, all with different movement speeds), and we also intend to introduce canals and locks (also of various types and speeds).  These will be expensive and will require maintenance - probably in the form of Sovereignty.  Roads will substantially increase movement speed.

    We intend to introduce the option for you to charge tolls to players who use your city infrastructure (roads / canals / ports).

    For those in powerblocs (clusters of cities right next to each other), I should mention that moving through or over cities will be painful - taking an army through a busy city isn't going to be a quick process.  Cities in the center of powerblocs will have movement speeds (inbound and outbound) severely curtailed, whilst the units cross the surrounding cities.

  • TERRAFORMING

    We do intend on introducing some abilities to terraform, so players get the ability to change the terrain around them.

    Some terraforming will be manual labour, and others will be magic-based.

    Changing terrain will cost astronomical amounts and will take a very long time - depending on what you want to do.

    For example, sending out woodcutters to fell an entire forest and turn it into plains will take less time and be cheaper than planting a forest, managing/tending it - and letting it grow into Light Woods.

    For more dramatic terrain changes, there will be a set of spells in the geomancy school for these purposes.  These spells will cost astronomical amounts to cast, and will take huge amounts of time.

    It is anticipated that you will only be able to "shift" terrain one step at at a time.  ie Plains to Small Hills, Small Hills to Large Hills, Large Hills to Small Mountains, Small Mountains to Large Mountains.

    The one thing that needs to be made clear about Terraforming is that it is not something we want to become the norm for players to do instead of settling where they want to be and/or moving cities.  The costs and time to terraform will reflect this - for example, think timelines to terraform a single square in terms of weeks and months rather than days and hours.

  • FUTURE CITY MOVES (AFTER THIS ONE-OFF FREE MOVE)

    We intend to introduce some form of "moving your city" in the future, which will partially enable a "nomadic" existence.  The precise details of this are (as is everything in this post!) still not finalised, but one thing is for sure - cities will be penalised for moving, and the penalty will grow with the city size to move.

    You can't expect to pack up a L20 Forge and move it, but you might be able to pack up a L5 Forge and move with it.

  • FUTURE MAP CHANGES

    We're still changing the map.  We're detailing areas that we want to craft in specific ways for specific purposes.

    Most of these changes are to far-flung areas, but please be aware that any and all areas of the map will be changing - and possibly changing radically - for the foreseeable future.  It is, after all, a living and breathing world.

    We don't intend to change a) terrain you're settled upon, b) terrain directly N, S, E, W of your city, and c) terrain that you have claimed Sovereignty on.

    Once we've enabled City Moving we will try and keep changes to a minimum - however, there will inevitably still be parts of the map we'll be making alterations to.  We'll try and minimise the impact of these changes.

    We are also going to be introducing a wider set of standard world map tile types, to break up the monotony and busy-ness of some of the new topographic areas with more interesting features and variation.  These tiles will mostly be cosmetic variations, and the underlying square won't change (in most cases).

I hope this helps you understand some more about the future, and helps you see where we're going with other things.  Please bear in mind that we expect that very few of the items listed above will occur during 2010, so this is a very, very far-looking heads-up.

Most of all, I hope this reinforces that we're at the beginning of the process of changing the world from a catapillar into a butterfly - it's a living world and it's a changing world, and there is as much wisdom as there is folly in trying to predict what the future will bring - but it will all, definitely, be worth it in the end.

Best wishes,

GM Stormcrow


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2010 at 15:33
One FAQ that I should mention:

If you want your city to interact with water in the future (launch boats, cross oceans etc) it needs to be placed next to the water it wishes to interact with.

However, we do plan on allowing players to build canals and channels on their sovereign squares - in order to connect themselves with water and have boat building facilities etc.

The only thing to bear in mind here is that these canals and channels will cost a lot of resources to build and a lot to maintain - so (if you wish to experience the opportunities as well as threats that water might bring) the nearer you are to water, the better.

Best,

SC


Posted By: Brids17
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2010 at 15:42
I'm kind of disappointed about this. I can't move my other cities anywhere close to my main one because it's within 10 squares of some random players. You should be able to move your cities directly adjacent to yours regardless of how close any other active players are.  


Posted By: Miksu
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2010 at 15:47
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

One FAQ that I should mention:

If you want your city to interact with water in the future (launch boats, cross oceans etc) it needs to be placed next to the water it wishes to interact with.
What does "next to" mean? I have my city touching water from one corner. Is my city then next to water?


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2010 at 16:43
Originally posted by Miksu Miksu wrote:

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

One FAQ that I should mention:

If you want your city to interact with water in the future (launch boats, cross oceans etc) it needs to be placed next to the water it wishes to interact with.
What does "next to" mean? I have my city touching water from one corner. Is my city then next to water?


Yes. So long as your city touches water in any one of the 8 squares around it, that's "touching water".


Posted By: waylander69
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2010 at 20:37
What happens if you try to move your city to a resource square with troops located on it ?


Posted By: rebel5360
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2010 at 21:55
will there be a diffrence between tidal water and sea ships? like will there be ships for tidal water, and then ships for sea ships, or will they both go together?

EDIT: add shallow sea water ships also. will there be diffrent ships for each type of water?


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2010 at 22:12
Originally posted by waylander69 waylander69 wrote:

What happens if you try to move your city to a resource square with troops located on it ?


That's no issue, Waylander,  your city moves just fine.  The troops there should defend the square on your behalf.


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 18 Oct 2010 at 22:17
Originally posted by rebel5360 rebel5360 wrote:

will there be a diffrence between tidal water and sea ships? like will there be ships for tidal water, and then ships for sea ships, or will they both go together?

EDIT: add shallow sea water ships also. will there be diffrent ships for each type of water?


Ships and Maritime things are a long way away (Q1 or Q2 2011) so these details aren't anywhere near finalised.  But yes, different kinds of ships ships will have different kinds of waters they can enter safely, and some of these ships will cross different sea types.  There will also be opportunities for players to "dredge" different shallow sea squares, and thereby change their type to a type capable of supporting larger bottomed ships.

Best,

SC


Posted By: Akita
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 00:31

Quote [...]

you are bringing your underlying resources with you

[...]

for the purposes of combat resolution, your city will now take on the new attributes of the terrain you have settled upon. (ie if you move from mountains to plains, for combat purposes you are now treated as living on plains)

[...]

Just to be 100% certain... this means the visible terrain type remains whatever it was before on that square, but the resource distribution changes to whatever you had before ?

So, for instance, your city was founded a "bountiful land" 5/5/3/5/7 square and you teleport it on a "mountains" square (normally 5/5/7/3/5 resources), the result will be that your city is now on a "mountain" square with a 5/5/3/5/7 resource distribution and mountain-like combat bonuses and penalties ?

Also, the square you teleport out of, does it change or does it stay the same ?

And when the now-on-mountain-but-with-bountiful-land-resources city is razed, does the terrain remain like that, or does it revert to a typical mountain resource distribution ?

:)



Posted By: King EAM
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 00:58
Just to be clear can you settle within 10 squares of a faction?
I need an answer quick.


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 01:14
Originally posted by king eam king eam wrote:

Just to be clear can you settle within 10 squares of a faction?
I need an answer quick.
Yes, but not the immediate 8 squares around it (N, NW, W, SW, S, SE, E, NE) - The settling spell should indicate this if you try locations.


Posted By: sityviper
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 01:35
Originally posted by Brids17 Brids17 wrote:

I'm kind of disappointed about this. I can't move my other cities anywhere close to my main one because it's within 10 squares of some random players. You should be able to move your cities directly adjacent to yours regardless of how close any other active players are.  
 i agree

-------------
§.i.†.¥.V.‡.¶.€.® 3


Posted By: King EAM
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 01:40
Thanks


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 08:56
Originally posted by Akita Akita wrote:

Quote [...]

you are bringing your underlying resources with you

[...]

for the purposes of combat resolution, your city will now take on the new attributes of the terrain you have settled upon. (ie if you move from mountains to plains, for combat purposes you are now treated as living on plains)

[...]

Just to be 100% certain... this means the visible terrain type remains whatever it was before on that square, but the resource distribution changes to whatever you had before ?

So, for instance, your city was founded a "bountiful land" 5/5/3/5/7 square and you teleport it on a "mountains" square (normally 5/5/7/3/5 resources), the result will be that your city is now on a "mountain" square with a 5/5/3/5/7 resource distribution and mountain-like combat bonuses and penalties ?

Yes
Originally posted by Akita Akita wrote:

Also, the square you teleport out of, does it change or does it stay the same ?
It and the surrounding terrain and sovereignty squares will revert to what it would have been had your town not been there when the world changed - unless of course the square is adjacent to another active town - when it will remain the same.

Originally posted by Akita Akita wrote:

And when the now-on-mountain-but-with-bountiful-land-resources city is razed, does the terrain remain like that, or does it revert to a typical mountain resource distribution ?
If the city is razed or captured the square's resource distribution will remain the same - it is only the extreme magical disruption caused by Tenaril's Spell of Ultimate Teleportation that causes these side-effects



Posted By: Belthazor
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 10:31
I got this pond right by my city.Will I be able to have boats? Like small boats for fishing or something like that?


Posted By: Ethelion
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 14:01
What happens to incoming attacks that can no longer reach their destination, such as now there is a water barrier? 
 
Will they return home once they hit the water or do they just hang out at the water's edge until pathfinding and sea travel are implemented?
 
Or do they walk on water to complete this mission?


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 14:07
Originally posted by Ethelion Ethelion wrote:

What happens to incoming attacks that can no longer reach their destination, such as now there is a water barrier? 
 
Will they return home once they hit the water or do they just hang out at the water's edge until pathfinding and sea travel are implemented?
 
Or do they walk on water to complete this mission?

As per:  http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/major-release-14sep10-world-topography_topic1019.html - http://forum.illyriad.co.uk/major-release-14sep10-world-topography_topic1019.html

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

 The movement of troops, diplomats, and trade are *currently* unaffected by the topography, so please feel free to have a laugh at your troops and trade caravans as they walk on water.


Posted By: Slagmar
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 06:36
GM Stormcrow,
 
I am trying to take advantage of moving my city, Dagmaria, as the unfortunate result of a lost contest.
 
As if finding a space 10 squares away from enyone I'm not confederated with wasn't hard enough, the system is telling me that I have reinforcements in Dagmaria, which as far as I can tell I do not.
 
I did a few days ago, then they left and my army was destroyed.  Again.  Could you look into why the system believes I have reinforcements there?
 
Though I am not under seige, I am being continually raided and would like to get out of there as fast as possible.
 
Many thanks,
 
Dagmar(Slagmar)


-------------
Everbearded,

Slagmar


Posted By: waylander69
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 07:31
Dagmar, fastest way to sort this out would be via an in game petition in the support section of the main game page as they get looked at quicker.


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 09:36
Originally posted by Slagmar Slagmar wrote:

GM Stormcrow,
 
I am trying to take advantage of moving my city, Dagmaria, as the unfortunate result of a lost contest.
 
As if finding a space 10 squares away from enyone I'm not confederated with wasn't hard enough, the system is telling me that I have reinforcements in Dagmaria, which as far as I can tell I do not.
 
I did a few days ago, then they left and my army was destroyed.  Again.  Could you look into why the system believes I have reinforcements there?
 
Though I am not under seige, I am being continually raided and would like to get out of there as fast as possible.
 
Many thanks,
 
Dagmar(Slagmar)


Hi Dagmar,

This is now rectified, thanks for letting us know.

In the future, however, opening a petition via the ingame Support link is better for this kind of issue, as it gets to the right people faster.

Best wishes,

GM Stormcrow


Posted By: lep
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 16:03
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

    * Cannot be a square that is within 10 squares' radius of another player who is not in your alliance, nor in an alliance that is confederated with yours
          o Exemption for inactive accounts. You may move to within 10 squares of an inactive player. Inactive players are players who either have zero population and have not logged in for 1 week, or have more than zero population but have not logged in for 4 weeks.


Is this now no longer the case? As there are several players showing in the blocking list that have been 0 pop for weeks, some for months, but are now blocking the movement of settlements.


Posted By: thk
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 16:32
looks like I'm having similar problems ...


Posted By: GM ThunderCat
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 17:06
Originally posted by lep lep wrote:

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

    * Cannot be a square that is within 10 squares' radius of another player who is not in your alliance, nor in an alliance that is confederated with yours
          o Exemption for inactive accounts. You may move to within 10 squares of an inactive player. Inactive players are players who either have zero population and have not logged in for 1 week, or have more than zero population but have not logged in for 4 weeks.


Is this now no longer the case? As there are several players showing in the blocking list that have been 0 pop for weeks, some for months, but are now blocking the movement of settlements.

Should be fine now...


Posted By: lep
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 17:07
Cheers, that was quick :-)


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2010 at 17:22
A small (and incorrect) change made yesterday dropped the exclusion for zero pop cities, it has been returned to how it was, and you should now see the correct information.

I'll be putting a post in the Herald and in today's "announcements" section to explain things further.

Best,

SC




Posted By: Uuntaar
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 17:12
I thought moves were supposed to be over with on the 10th. Well today is the 11th 17:10 server time and someone we were attacking just moved so our units are gonna be gone for a long time now >:(


Posted By: Zangi
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 17:13
Quote It will cease to be available on Wednesday 17NOV10 at 14:00 Server Time


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 18:25
We are strongly considering extending the availability of this spell (each city can move once without penalty) permanently, as it has had especially good feedback from brand new players joining the game.

Just mentioning.

SC


Posted By: G0DsDestroyer
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 18:27
How about you make it available to only newly joined players?
 
Only the capitals of course as the other cities can be moved wherever with settlers, unless you capture another city, in that case the city should stay there.


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http://live.xbox.com/en-US/MyXbox/Profile?gamertag=G0DsDestroyer" rel="nofollow - Tia mi aven Moridin isainde vadin


Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 18:46
well it would nice to build a city next to you, supply it with res till its self sufficient  then move it somewere more beneficial

or did you have just new players capitols in mind


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 18:57
Hm...build on 7 food plot tile, grow it, then teleport to place with loads of sovereignty bonuses.  Exploit to create unfairly optimal territories, or just good strategy?

Worse...create new city on a plot with desired sovereignty bonus, teleport it near another city, then siege the new one off the plot and claim sovereignty instead.  Rinse and repeat.
Exploit to custom-tailor your surroundings, waste of time because plot reverts to original tile (even located when adjacent to your older city), or (unlikely) acceptable strategy?


Posted By: some random guy
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 19:07
I made a city on an "abundant crops" square (5/3/5/5/7).  Then, being a dwarf, I moved it to a forested area with lots of good sov. squares (yes, forests are better for dwarves than mountains).  Suites me fine, so I'd call it a good strategy.   

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Soon, very soon, my name will become synonymous with chicken alfredo.... mmm.... chicken alfredo....


Posted By: bartimeus
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 21:35
Originally posted by HonoredMule HonoredMule wrote:

Hm...build on 7 food plot tile, grow it, then teleport to place with loads of sovereignty bonuses.  Exploit to create unfairly optimal territories, or just good strategy?

Worse...create new city on a plot with desired sovereignty bonus, teleport it near another city, then siege the new one off the plot and claim sovereignty instead.  Rinse and repeat.
Exploit to custom-tailor your surroundings, waste of time because plot reverts to original tile (even located when adjacent to your older city), or (unlikely) acceptable strategy?

I had to dig this back up from old topics, its would seam that you cann't modify your sov square the way you described. you only bring the underlying rescource destribution with you.

Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Originally posted by Akita Akita wrote:

Quote [...]

you are bringing your underlying resources with you

[...]

for the purposes of combat resolution, your city will now take on the new attributes of the terrain you have settled upon. (ie if you move from mountains to plains, for combat purposes you are now treated as living on plains)

[...]

Just to be 100% certain... this means the visible terrain type remains whatever it was before on that square, but the resource distribution changes to whatever you had before ?

So, for instance, your city was founded a "bountiful land" 5/5/3/5/7 square and you teleport it on a "mountains" square (normally 5/5/7/3/5 resources), the result will be that your city is now on a "mountain" square with a 5/5/3/5/7 resource distribution and mountain-like combat bonuses and penalties ?

Yes
Originally posted by Akita Akita wrote:

Also, the square you teleport out of, does it change or does it stay the same ?
It and the surrounding terrain and sovereignty squares will revert to what it would have been had your town not been there when the world changed - unless of course the square is adjacent to another active town - when it will remain the same.

Originally posted by Akita Akita wrote:

And when the now-on-mountain-but-with-bountiful-land-resources city is razed, does the terrain remain like that, or does it revert to a typical mountain resource distribution ?
If the city is razed or captured the square's resource distribution will remain the same - it is only the extreme magical disruption caused by Tenaril's Spell of Ultimate Teleportation that causes these side-effects




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Bartimeus, your very best friend.


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 22:14
Ah, but resource distribution is a sovereignty factor.  Imagine if you replaced every nearby square that doesn't have some high valued sovereignty bonus you want and replaced it with a 7 food plot tile.  You could have a 7-tile food city at max pop and still have positive food income at generous taxation levels.  That's a pretty sweet deal, but it's also at the expense of hoarding resources from all over the map.  Enough cities performing this operation could steal 7-food plot tiles from all over the map and by this means either starve others of resources under their own nose (since you can settle any tile not under sovereignty claim without proximity limits), or--if the original tile stays the same--flood the map with 7-food tiles.

I'm in favor of being able to move, but I fear allowing one teleport (i.e. the current temporary implementation) per city permanently could have significant side effects in the long term, impacting the coherency of biomes, fair distribution of resources, and interaction with future features (eg what happens when you build a shipyard then move your city away from water?).


Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 22:49
if you build on a tile and move, the tile reverts to what it would have originally been after the biome reseeding

so it would stay a 7 food tile when you tele away

when a city is destroyed the tile reverts back to what it was originally

so the 7 food tile you tried to move would revert if you destroyed the city for sov claims

i had more in mind of building a new settlement maxing out its walls, stocking it with troops n supplies and moving it to one of the more dangerous factions to have a sparring match and see how strong they are


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 23:10
Originally posted by Torn Sky Torn Sky wrote:

so the 7 food tile you tried to move would revert if you destroyed the city for sov claims


Can you confirm that this is the case when the tile is adjacent to another city?  Recall that biome reseeding doesn't affect these locations, so unless it is explicitly tested or clarified by the devs I don't think we have enough previous information to know for sure how this specific case is handled.


Posted By: Torn Sky
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 23:25
they stated that the adjacent squares would not be affected by the biome reseeding, and that when a city is destroyed/moves and tiles it was affecting would reset to the biome reseeding code

since most active players have moved their cities they are no longer covered by the adjacent squares clause

but this is specualtion


also with terraforming a possibility in the future it will end up this way anyway


Posted By: HonoredMule
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 00:04
However terraforming will be more limited and balanced...and costly. Tongue


Posted By: Babbens
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2011 at 21:59
Originally posted by Belthazor Belthazor wrote:

I got this pond right by my city.Will I be able to have boats? Like small boats for fishing or something like that?


Sorry if I resurrect this, but I'd like to know too.


Posted By: GM Stormcrow
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2011 at 22:17
Originally posted by Babbens Babbens wrote:

Originally posted by Belthazor Belthazor wrote:

I got this pond right by my city.Will I be able to have boats? Like small boats for fishing or something like that?


Sorry if I resurrect this, but I'd like to know too.

Um.  Not sure.  Probably Smile

Pathfinding (and thereby naval concerns) are the next "big" task for the dev team after UI v2 - although there will be a gap between finishing the UI v2 dev and starting on the new stuff whilst we release a few long-promised things in the meantime, and polish some of the v2 items as well.

Many of the naval questions still need resolution in my head, although in principle I can't see why a "lake" or "loch" single square tile should be treated any differently from a larger lake-like body of water, and thereby potentially be (eg) "fishable".   It all slightly depends on (eg) how we release fishing, and what form it takes...

Regards,

SC





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