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SOKAPOPIS View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 May 2017 at 19:42
I think that possibility of selling prestige for gold entirely changed the game spirit .
It s now a pay to win obviously .
The way to win wars is highly linked to the runing negative gold income .
People can aford to have huge armies as long they can buy prestige and get big amounts of gold from it .
There s no need to be a genius to have big armies , i could teach a monkey how to get more and more negative gold production and he could do it forever if his money will allow it .
This really changed the spirit in illy and obviously gives a big advantage to warmongers  . they dont even need to produce , hunt nor harvest to get the gold they need to finance their armies .
The natural tendance of rich people being to crush what is less rich than themselves the result is what we are seing now in Illy . Aggressive temper backed with money is slowly but surely killing that game .
That possibility to sell prestige for gold should just be removed .
i know it comes against economic but that s 0 dollar that the game will gain when this world will be over .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hyrdmoth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 20:12
I disagree on several counts.

1. Even I have been able to build up a stash of a few hundred million gold to help me support larger armies without selling a single bit of prestige. Other players have been able to do the same to a far greater extent.

2. While maintaining large standing armies is advantageous, even large armies can die quickly. Victory in wars will therefore tend to go to the side that can replace its losses most quickly. While a large stash of gold can help with this, troop production speed is limited by a hard limit of 20 sovereign structures, and a soft limit of basic resource use.

3. There is no winning in Illyriad. In other thematically similar games it is possible to greatly increase the power at your disposal by conquering the cities of other players, but the difficulty of moving beyond ten cities in Illyriad, and the high cost of capturing a defended city compared to the return on that investment in greater troop production, means that a small group of players buying prestige cannot use the relatively small edge it gives them to accumulate far greater power within the game.

4. Enabling players who are unable, or unwilling, to purchase prestige with $, £ or €, to purchase prestige from other players with in game gold, encourages the purchase of prestige by players of the game, helping to fund the game servers, further development and support.
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Ten Kulch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 20:54
Muggle myth.

First, the game already had trading of gold for prestige. It was clunky, but people would buy prestige for others in exchange for gold. The transaction also happened within alliances via the alliance prestige pool. The devs just streamlined and formalized a way of trading prestige on the open market.

Second, exchanging prestige for gold has enabled new players to vault directly into PvP. That's a good thing. Previously, tournaments were dominated by the old alliances who had huge arrays of permasat gold farms. Literally their only "virtue" was that they willingly broke the 2 account rule and had sufficient connections to collect multiple accounts. If selling prestige for gold has broken that stranglehold, then good for the sellers.

Third, for every seller there is a buyer. Who is buying all this prestige? You guessed it, mostly the players with gold farms. But there are also many minor purchases by players who saved up their gold to buy in-game currency, and that's great too. It is allowing real money to enter the game by facilitating the prestige-for-gold transaction.

Net result: PfG sales have allowed a few new players to jump into PvP and compete with musty old accounts by giving the devs real money. Overall that's a win-win for the game.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eresh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 21:13
Ten Kulch is correct. As a relatively new player (4 months old now) I would not be able to participate in the pvp side of the game for many more months without being able to buy prestige for IRL money and selling it for gold. Taxes will feed what? 1000 troops max for a noob? Hell you can't even farm some groups of npcs effectively with what your taxes will cover on a low population noob city.

I don't have a fleet of perma-sat accounts to pull from. I don't have years of harvested items to sell. I don't have a built up gold farm (but I am working on one). I don't want to have to commit a year of my life into a game just to build a gold farm in order to see if I even like half the aspects of that game or not. Selling a few scraps lets me build a real army and participate now. It also keeps the game you're playing free for you to play it. 

PS - none of this means I'm rich (I'm a poor mofo, trust me) and none of it means I have a bad temper or wanna crush lesser people. It's hard for a farmer to understand, but pvp actually can be fun in a game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 23:18
I've been playing Illy on and off for a fair few years - this is about my 5th incarnation and I started it almost 2.5 years ago and throughout that time people have found ways to do things that were not hard coded into the game, it's part of the beauty of Illy as far as I'm concerned. There are an almost unlimited number of ways to play the game and none of them involve 'winning' the game.

So far I've not tried the 'Warmongering' style of play but from the information I've gathered over the years I have to agree with the earlier replies - being able to sell prestige for gold has only made the game more interesting for more people. That is a good thing.

As the previous replies all pointed out, the increase in the amount of prestige being bought means more hard cash for the devs and at the end of the day if they don't get enough money then they can't pay for the servers that the game runs on. That means no game let alone any future development and I for one am willing to donate some (OK a very small amount) of my limited RL funds to help make sure the game keeps running and who knows possibly even get some new things in it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Silea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 15:14
I am in no way a warmonger.   But I have to agree with Tensmoor and others here.  Do I see the game changing yes I do.   But are the changes bad?   Or is this a vitalizing the game?  We all knew when we got an influx of steam players that there would be changes.  I know it changed some ways that I played I moved some cities to be closer,  but i dont really see that it is bad.  
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SOKAPOPIS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SOKAPOPIS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 16:27
Looks like i wont convince anyone . If you guys cant see that the gap between prestige players and those playing for free hugely grown due to the prestige sold for mass gold then there s nothing i can say .
one of the things liked in illy was that prestige was usefull but wasnt making such a big difference . I feel that time is over . It s most like if you dont spend money then u r way behind nowadays cause u got to work hard to gather few gold when other can get hundreds of Millions with one click .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 18:42
I've been in the leadership of 4 alliances w/o ever buying prestige. Trade-wise I ran an bank and rank in the top 150 players. If prestige was that much of a problem due to its use for in game gold then I shouldn't have been able to do any of that.
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Ten Kulch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 18:44
I know many of the most aggressive PvP fighters in the game. Maybe 5-10 of my friends are heavily selling prestige to finance major armies. I know far more people who are using gold reserves to purchase prestige to finance account growth past 9 cities.

As I pointed out, prestige for gold sales happened long before prestige items could be sold on the market.

I have already won more prestige at trivia this year than I have purchased with money. Whatever your theory about selling prestige for gold to finance armies, it should be plain that proficiency at fighting will always overcome deep pockets. The only exception might be tournaments, because people just stand there taking punches. Gold might prevail there.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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Tensmoor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 20:16
+1 Ten Kulch

A lot of the prestige I buy is used to speed vans from BL to the newbie ring.
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