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Yso Sris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yso Sris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2011 at 00:41
Originally posted by Manannan Manannan wrote:

Originally posted by Yso Sris Yso Sris wrote:

I want to point out for example saurians, some with 200-400+ attack, still only give 1-2 experience points each. This is very cheesy IMO, they aren't worth the losses.

Firstly you need to get a better understanding of how attacking NPCs works. I'm sure someone will be willing to explain it to you. Geek

Secondly I wonder if the difficulty and rewards of the Saurian NPC type has anything to do with why it has an MPD as high as it does? Nah... that would be too simple an explanation! LOL

To the pub!!! Beer 

Then why not  you set me straight? You attack 4-5 saurians w/200-400 attack each with 200 troops and loose about 80 or so. And  get about 8 commander experience on top of a half dead commander. Am I wrong that that  sucks and is out of proportion or am I missing something.
-Molg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manannan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2011 at 04:07
Originally posted by Yso Sris Yso Sris wrote:

 
Then why not  you set me straight? You attack 4-5 saurians w/200-400 attack each with 200 troops and loose about 80 or so. And  get about 8 commander experience on top of a half dead commander. Am I wrong that that  sucks and is out of proportion or am I missing something.

There's numerous factors when attacking NPCs:
Your troops and type
Your commander(s) skills
Targets troops and type
Targets defence ratings
Terrain
Etc. etc.

I'm sure you can get one of the maths buffs to go fully into it but I'm not... mostly because my explanations are long winded and I really can't be bothered to be typing for hours.

There are no greater rewards for attacking higher MDQs than attacking lower ones... This is mention in the full NPC guide these difficulties are taken from. God only knows why the forum won't let me publish it in its entirety. Its a subject of great angst to me!

If you want to level up you commander quickly attack low level NPCs like Wild Dogs or Rats... If you are bored and want to fight something that looks like my ex mother in law attack Saurians or Rhinos... Unfortunately the fire-breathing dragons haven't been released yet so none of you can play at being St George!

I have no idea about the troops you attacked with or any of the other variables but the losses sound about right for 200 troops attacking a handful of Saurians (I'm assuming they were mostly, if not all, Spike-backed Saurian troop type). By the way the attack for Saurians is between 83 and 301 depending on the type. With the handful you attacked it wouldn't be at the higher end of the scale.

To try to cut the attack down as simply as possible without breaking into multiple troop types, commander bonuses, terrain etc. We'll say that you attacked with 200 militiamen with an attack rating of 7 each (1400 total). The 5 Saurians each have a defence rating of 70 against spearmen (350 total). Difference between the two is 75% in favour of the attacking side so you'll get 25% losses from your 200 militia (50 total). The Saurians are defeated and you earn a massive 5 experience and 60 gold for the loss of a huge number of troops and equipment... bummer!

Now lets swap it around just for fun. The 5 saurians (spear units) have an attack rating of 83 each (415 total). Your 200 militia have a defence rating of 11 each against spear (2200 total). Difference this time is 81% but in favour of the defenders this time which will equate to 19% losses from the militiamen (38 total). 

Now for fun here is what would've happened with Wild Dogs. We already know the attack rating for the 200 militiamen is 1400 total. The defence rating for the 5 Wild Dog Pups is 3 each (15 total). difference between the two is 99% in favour of the attackers equating to a 1% loss (2 militiamen). Same experience gain of 5 and 60 gold for the loss of 48 less troops. 

In general its all about having the right troop at the right place at the right time. A lot of this was factored in when calculating the MDQs. Bigger isn't always better. In the case of the MDQs bigger means more business for your undertakers and smaller means a dog skin rug and a some fluffy slippers... Thats slippers made of Wild Dog and not Fluffy the player!

For everyone reading this and panicking that Saurians are coming for them don't. NPCs don't attack players.... For the moment anyway. I did that example for fun only.

That is about as basic as I can really cut attack and defence down to using only one troop type and no variables. There's a hell of a lot more to it than that though, especially throwing in more troop types etc, but that should help you with the calculations a little more. Like I said at the start I'm sure the maths nerds will be happy to help you with the full ins and outs of it.
Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fluffy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2011 at 04:19
Yeah, if you try to make slippers out of me I will not be happy.  Rawr!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2011 at 04:24
Anyone who wants Fluffy slippers has to fight through me first!

/me snuggles Fluffy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Manannan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2011 at 04:26
Originally posted by fluffy fluffy wrote:

Yeah, if you try to make slippers out of me I will not be happy.  Rawr!

You may not be happy... But that persons feet will be lovely and toasty!

...

...

...

Maybe a little itchy too, but mainly warm and toasty. Just what we all need with winter creeping in... Illyriad branded Fluffy slippers... Purchase now for delivery for Christmas! Only 99,999,995 gold including delivery.
Doesn't look good... doesn't look bad either!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gossip Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 17:01
sent an army of 665 t1 human cavalry with a commander having full charge and heroism against a legion of giant rats on plains.will share the outcome after a couple of hours

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KillerPoodle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 17:28
I agree with Yso that experience received ought to better reflect the toughness of the target you're attacking/being attacked by.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tordenkaffen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 17:29
If SC and TC made fluffy slippers as merchandise I would buy a pair :) But they would have to come with a guarantee for my feets level of toastiness :D

Excellent work on the guide Manny
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yso Sris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 23:38
Originally posted by Gossip Boy Gossip Boy wrote:

sent an army of 665 t1 human cavalry with a commander having full charge and heroism against a legion of giant rats on plains.will share the outcome after a couple of hours

awesome 

Also fairly clear mini-guide Manannanaana


Edited by Yso Sris - 20 Oct 2011 at 23:39
-Molg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yso Sris Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 23:53
Manannan   now I need to figure out what terrain does as a variable... so say 50 calv against 50 archers, you could take calv attack against archer defense (are battles 1 round only??? with attack on the part of the attacker and defense on the part of the defender?) and what would terrain add- Say plains, is that a defense hit on the archers, say -20-30% and then an offense bonus for the calv say 20-30%? Then also commander skills add -alot- of possible variables.

Edited by Yso Sris - 20 Oct 2011 at 23:53
-Molg
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