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LIGHTNESS DESCENDED

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Epidemic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Epidemic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 09:15
Very interesting read Taron, and I could completely understand everything you wrote, mostly because of my time spent in Aesir and understanding you're not quite all there...

I wonder, looking back, if this minor war was one of the opening salvos to the huge world war that saw much great strife. It seems that all sides were already drawn way back then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Kindly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 16:59
The point Taron's humour is making to me is that all these so-called History threads in here are not really History, but more like one-sided Chronicles. I take them all with a grain of salt.

"History is written by the victors" is what some people always like to say in cases like this. That's always been one of the most BS statements concerning History. Historians go look for other sources for confirmation.

As one of my old Professors put it, "History may be dictated by victors, but that doesn't make it true". Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 17:41
Illy doesn't have historians. It's up to us to write it and that means it will be a "one sided chronicle" by default. The divisions are falling as should easily be predicted, therefore all of this must be taken with a grain of salt and that includes the comments after (this one too). I don't claim to be unbiased but I did try to explain the sides. If it's unsatisfactory to you then take up the pen and chronicle away.

BTW, thank you Taron for doing so. I'm no fan but at least you tried. More than I can say for most.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 22:15
It does not mean That it will be one sided by default. If you want to get the History correct... you can ask the opposing group instead of 'assume and guess' as you have been doing.

I will help you find out how to ask abstractdream!

There are these things called messages. IGM if you rather call them. You can use this to send a message to another individual who is possible on the other side. (hint hint you can message me for any questions about TLR vs Aesir sense I might have possible been involved you know).

If you are going to pretend to be a historian you might as well try a little better at pretending... I do a wonderful job to pretend to be mentally unstable! :D
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I Am not responsible for what you understand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 23:46
Originally posted by Captain Kindly Captain Kindly wrote:

The point Taron's humour is making to me is that all these so-called History threads in here are not really History, but more like one-sided Chronicles. I take them all with a grain of salt.
as do i. does it need to be said? the posts are signed. what more does one need?

let us not pretend these are any more than than they are: campfire tales told by grizzled warriors long after the event. it would be unreasonable to ask them to set their pride aside to tell them--it is pride that leads them to write them at all, to our benefit. but let not another's wounded pride lead to a shouting down of anyone who has a different view of the same event, or else we will have no tales at all. i do not see that Aesir comes off especially badly from abstractdream's story. if they are not heroic in it...would we expect Aesir to be the heroes from the perspective of abstractdream?

credit to Taron for returning to the thread. i now understand more than i did.

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

I think it was reasonably comprehensible for anyone who was there.  As for the people who weren't, they probably don't care anyway.
i was either there or i wasn't, and in either case you are wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angrim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2014 at 23:52
and, incidentally, i would argue that this is "really history". one cannot have a rounded view without first assembling a collection of "one-sided chronicles".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Jejune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 10:17
BV had recently reconnected with me and had sent along a link to the compendium he has put together on his alliance profile page (which is worth checking out -- James Joyce would be impressed by his attention to detail). I really like that sort of thing and yeah, while it and anything else written about past gaming events around here will always be biased, I thought that that his willingness to collect and save conversations and missives from previous events is both impressive and important. I kind of encouraged BV to repurpose some of that content from his profile into posts in the Histories section, because I think it's a good idea to not only create new fictions for the game, but also preserve some of the game-oriented stories as well, even if they can never be sufficiently objective to the point where all current gamers find them to be reasonably accurate.

I get that in a retelling like this, someone is always going to not like it, since someone always ends up looking like the bad guy.

Truth be told, having been a witness to the events in question, I never saw this conflict through the lens of "good guy" and "bad guy," or that AESIR or Thordor were acting as heroes or villains. To the outside observer, it was for me a very exciting, interesting turn of events to watch that quickly evolved from a spat on GC to a conjecture over surrender terms to an impending invasion to turning of the tides of war. 

If you pull away from it and look at it dispassionately, there were a lot of twists and turns, and I think that even a new player trying to get a sense of how dynamic this game can be would find it compelling.

I think that we should have MORE histories like this. It might even be interesting to set up threads as annual "conventions" on past wars and other goings-on in order to keep discussing and debating them. If real historians can do this, then why not the Illy community?

NOTE: Epidemic seems to already be leading the "Official 2014 AESIR/TLR War Convention" with this wondering:

I wonder, looking back, if this minor war was one of the opening salvos to the huge world war that saw much great strife. It seems that all sides were already drawn way back then.



Edited by Jejune - 24 Sep 2014 at 10:20

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 18:15
Ceasefire terms not surrender. That is the main goal I am trying to accomplish here. Aesir did not surrender. There was agreement to a ceasefire
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jejune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 19:32
Originally posted by Taron Taron wrote:

Ceasefire terms not surrender. That is the main goal I am trying to accomplish here. Aesir did not surrender. There was agreement to a ceasefire

Got it. I'm cool with that. 

I understand your frustration over semantics. I get very frustrated by the widespread, hegemonic use of the term "Trove War," which is completely inaccurate and propagandistic. But that's for a whole 'nuther forum to open up old wounds on. Angry

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Sep 2014 at 20:32
It seems like Taron's problem is with Eternal Fire. I presume that is who he refers to when he says "Æsir did not surrender." I did include in my story the subject line of a message referencing a white flag but that came from a member of Æsir. Otherwise I've not said anything of the sort. I actually called it a cease fire in the story.
Bonfyr Verboo
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