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Illy Troop Update

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Morose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Illy Troop Update
    Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 14:52
So I have a project that I have been working on for a little bit and would like to share for comments.  Since I started playing back in 2012, the greatest changes in terms of game play by far was the Infantry updates and changes to troop stats.  Before this update, combat was very stale and only a few units were optimal for use.  This update made infantry into the juggernaut it is today, and really added additional flavor to combat and war strategy in Illy.

Since that time, combat has evolved into it's current form.  Towns placed surrounded by plains to defend against sieges, ability to overcome a small hill or forest adjacent if you have enough infantry close, mass stacking of t1 spears and bows for siege defense.  Unfortunately, there are a number of units that lag behind and therefore are not used.  Humans are stuck making T2 cavalry for the big hits but little else, making them somewhat one sided and stale.  Orcs are pretty decent, but if you aren't cranking Kobolds or Fangs what are you really doing?  Elves have turned from Trueshot city to Sentinel city, with some cavalry thrown in for fun.  Dwarves are doing dorf things, smashing with their Stalwarts but other than their T2 spears are kinda like Humans.

What I suggest is a change that while small, would shake the current military thinking and create for a more interesting war and military experience.  On to the changes!

1 - First off we need to look at military units themselves.  We have a Tier 1 and 2 version of each unit.  In most cases one is superior to the other in every way, relegating the other to the dust bin.  What I propose is to define the role of each.  To that end, I am proposing that Tier 1 be the premier defensive unit, whereas Tier 2 is more focused on offense.  It makes sense, especially given that each races specialty unit is Tier 2.  This would make each specialty unit feel really special, but also maybe see towns turn away from being 1 troop factories.

2 - Tiers established, now we need to look at terrain strengths and weaknesses.  As it stands a few units have terrain it really shines on, but I think we need a more uniform approach.  That being said, I propose a tier system where each troop type has a terrain it truly shines on where the others do not.  With four military units and four basic terrains, we can achieve this with assignments that mostly make sense realistically as well.  Below I will sort the troop and it's terrain from best to worst:

  • Cavalry - Plains (superior movement), Hills (poor mans plains), Forest (hard to maintain formation), and Mountain (this sucks).
  • Infantry - Forest (great cover), Mountain (breaks enemy ranks), Plains (good formations), Hills (biggest stretch I know, maybe they hate marching up and down)
  • Spears - Hills (formation w/high ground), Plains (allows for large phalanxes), Mountain (cover), Forest (unable to keep formation).
  • Ranged - Mountain (high ground), Forest (great cover), Hills (smaller high ground), Plains (they can get on you so fast).
3 - Terrain strengths and weakness established, we then need to revisit terrain bonuses to further reflect these changes.  After looking at spreadsheet numbers until my eyes bleed, here is what I came up with:



One other change with terrain I made was with buildings.  Since they are kind of an oddball, I made them as logical as possible.  One other item of note which is very important is how a city is handled.  Right now, if you direct a town you follow the underlying terrain, but if you storm to raze/capture you use buildings as your terrain.  I propose a town split the terrain bonus 50/50 with the underlying no matter how you attack the town.  So a town based on plains would be 50 plains and 50 buildings, direct attack or storm to raze/capture.

4 - Now that we have terrain bonuses set in stone we come to the meat and potatoes;  Troop values.  First, I established a baseline of what troops each race is best and worst at to allow for races to somewhat matter.  The ranking I came up with represents what is basically in Illy already (best to worst):
  • Elves - Ranged, Cavalry, Infantry, Spears
  • Humans - Cavalry, Ranged, Spears, Infantry
  • Dwarves - Infantry, Spears, Ranged, Cavalry
  • Orcs - Spears, Infantry, Cavalry, Ranged
As you can see we once again don't have any overlap, allowing for tactical decisions based on race as well.  The second major change was with a unit not known for it's attack prowess;  Spears.  In my mind a large phalanx of spears would be quite useful on the attack vs certain other units, and I wanted all T2 units to be viable attacking if the terrain and opponent warranted.  I created a spreadsheet that calculated values along with training times to get the Illy baseline, and then adjusted from there.  The result is fairly even, although numbers could be tweaked slightly.  I will post a picture of my adjusted troop types below, and also a link to a read only version of my final spreadsheet showing power values calculated by terrain and matchup.



As you can see, some minor and some major changes.  Here is the link to the spreadsheet for perusal:


In summation, here is my rational and reasoning behind this.  Firstly, I believe with the above changes military strategy will become more of that (strategy).  Scouts will become even more useful, as unit matchups are even more pivotal to success.  More terrain will be used, and town on plains surrounded by plains will no longer be the most viable town placement.  Spears can attack, opening up more useful equipment.  The choice between units will be real, and towns with a mix of T1 and T2 will be more common.  

My biggest reason for doing this work is this:  These changes can be made with the least amount of coding possible for the single biggest update to Illy since Infantry changes and equipment update.  I believe if you made changes based upon this, more varied gameplay would freshen the game for all with a minimal amount of work.

Take a look and feel free to shred my logic!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 15:43
This is a very intriguing idea. Thanks for working it out, Morose! I totally agree that reshuffling the unit and terrain stats would freshen up our strategies. If the devs see value in this it would be great.
Right now the game engine heavily penalizes players who do not have city placement with plains all around. By the same token, players who try to siege on plains are also penalized. If the bonuses are more balanced every terrain and every race should have unique strengths and weaknesses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dabrelis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 16:10
“towns with a mix of T1 and T2 will be more common. “
Why???

If you make one for attack and other for defense? Instead you would have more specialized T2 towns and T1 towns.

Specialization comes from
A) sov
B) use case

Now - if you make Orc T2 Spears with current Orc bow stats (good defending bows, bad defending cav) and keep same
T1 units (good defending cav, bad defending bows), then you would have a shot at towns that mix those things greatly.
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Morose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 16:19
Agreed that sov and use case determines specialization, but sov works with T1 and T2 at the same time.  If you look at the numbers, T1 are slightly better at defense and T2 are a little more slightly better at offense.  Given that your troop reduction buildings and sov works for T1 and T2 in the same town, you could mix T1 and T2 troops in a town with 0 downsides.  While not perfectly optimal, T2 can defend and T1 can attack fairly well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 16:24
You won't need to specialize towns in t1 or t2 though since you can use the same cost reduction building and same sov structures for both. That's the two main reasons people specialize cities for troop types.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 17:19
Morose, what would be the formula for the city tile? Average between the underlying terrain and buildings?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Morose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 17:33
I would think so yeah, so if you had a town on a small forest you would take the bonus for the small forest and buildings and average them out based on the troop type defending and attacking.  Make it matter where you place your towns.  Might need to think about situation different town types to support each other locally as well, so you can take advantage of sov bonuses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Cipher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 18:37
Like they're gonna pretty much redo the whole military aspect. This is as bad as Eo's few useless debates he started
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 19:26
Originally posted by Bill Cipher Bill Cipher wrote:

Like they're gonna pretty much redo the whole military aspect. This is as bad as Eo's few useless debates he started

Thanks for constructive input bud! Now kindly go back to trolling GC or w/e it is you fill your time with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote white willow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2018 at 19:37
Thanks for all the work on this morose you can tell a lot of work and thought went into it.
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