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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 22:05
Originally posted by Shrapnel Shrapnel wrote:

I was thinking about all the cool possibilites that could come with NPC factions when I thought of one of the things I hate most about AI in games like civilization:  simply the inability to reason to an AI.  For example, say an AI opponent is half your size and next to no army.  You and the opponent get into a war, but out of the kindness of your heart, you want to make peace (maybe you'd rather trade with the opponent or your just RPing a benevolent leader) with the AI opponent.  Regardless of the fact that they are clearly outmatched and will be destroyed, they refuse to make peace.  Another annoying thing is way an AI opponent is harassing you in some manner or doing something that just annoys you and you want to tell them to stop or you will attack them.  Usually there is no way to do this and even if there was (like stop spying in MOO2), the AI is just too stupid to listen.  Anyway to get to my point, when creating NPC factions for Illyriad, I ask the developers to please consider this sort of thing and do their best to create factions that react in a more reasonable manner.
 
That's a good point, Shrap. It has always annoyed me with strategy games as well...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 22:18
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

Hi all,

No plans for a new server atm; still lots to do with this one!  Our objective is for each server to be a  persistant world rather than one with resets.

On the Faction AI, we're going to take it slow and in baby steps.  NPC Factions will, initially, be reactive and trade-based rather than proactive and aggressively militarised.  This will change over time as they bed in, but initially there won't be rampaging hordes of evil NPCs destroying everything in their wake (more's the pity Wink !)

Best,

SC


So what happens when a player pisses them off and want to smooth relations?  How do you go about doing that?  Just send stuff? 
And that'll somehow register as +relation?  Is giving equipment more influential then resources/food/gold?
Is gold worth more then resources/food in their eyes?

What if the player attacks or whatever again after relations are smoothed?  And tries to game the system by doing that again and again?  (Maybe they gain more then they lose?  Maybe NPC are great EXP farms?)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 23:03
Originally posted by Zangi Zangi wrote:

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

Hi all,

No plans for a new server atm; still lots to do with this one!  Our objective is for each server to be a  persistant world rather than one with resets.

On the Faction AI, we're going to take it slow and in baby steps.  NPC Factions will, initially, be reactive and trade-based rather than proactive and aggressively militarised.  This will change over time as they bed in, but initially there won't be rampaging hordes of evil NPCs destroying everything in their wake (more's the pity Wink !)

Best,

SC


So what happens when a player pisses them off and want to smooth relations?  How do you go about doing that?  Just send stuff? 
And that'll somehow register as +relation?  Is giving equipment more influential then resources/food/gold?
Is gold worth more then resources/food in their eyes?

What if the player attacks or whatever again after relations are smoothed?  And tries to game the system by doing that again and again?  (Maybe they gain more then they lose?  Maybe NPC are great EXP farms?)
 
 
you have to take it from a real-life perspective.In the middle ages,gold was everything.
 
and as for your last question about exp farms,they might have to put in more gold or whatever to make the relation the same,each time you attack they become less forgiving,maybe putting up more defence or hoarding resources more,thats an easy balance
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2010 at 23:31
Originally posted by iluvpie3 iluvpie3 wrote:

 
 
you have to take it from a real-life perspective.In the middle ages,gold was everything.
 
and as for your last question about exp farms,they might have to put in more gold or whatever to make the relation the same,each time you attack they become less forgiving,maybe putting up more defence or hoarding resources more,thats an easy balance


I'm taking it from a Illyriad perspective.  Which can be up in the air due to game mechanics and balance decisions.

Heres the thing about getting 'more defense', if their mechanics work the same as players, which the GMs have said is likely...
Players can and will keep hitting the same faction/town/player to make sure that the NPC never ever recovers a big enough army to counter-attack.
I'm sure some of your alliance can tell you why and how that is a super effective tactic.

And hoarding more resources makes it easier for the player to take them...

As for the relation thing, rather hoping the Devs account for that sort of abuse...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2010 at 01:34
Maybe there will be some kind of incentive for players to protect some NPC factions?  Maybe the NPC faction will ask friendly players for help and if the player helps, they will get a reward?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2010 at 15:39
With the development of an actual contiguous world map, you could then introduce regions upon it. Each region would only be able to hold X amount of cities within it and only 1 of any players cities could be in a region. Players would start in a non space. The Alliance leader would then choose his starting position on the real map. As players are then invited into the alliance they are then placed upon the map and in a region either within the existing region or regions already chosen or an adjacent region that already has an existing alliance city. You then begin the establishment of kingdoms, region and, area control.

There is much that can be expanded within the simple above outline. But this will suffice for now I believe.

Thanks
Vytek
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2010 at 10:45
It seems like quite a few players a concerned with the AI of npc players.

Why don't we make them actual people? Real players who would play as the npc.
They would be selected on their role playing talent and story telling ability. 
They would not be allowed to settle, trade or send millitary action of any kind anywhere near the faction's terrain.

The way I see it, it could be very simmilar to the account sitting option, but on a npc account.

Players would be rewarded for their time with either prestige or just having a better insight of how fatcions work.

Maybe we could even have more than one player sitting each faction (better 24h coverage) but that would mean having some sort of block note fonction so both sitters act in a coherent way.

Faction's sitter would have their own private part of the forum where the dev would inform them of the general direction each faction shoold aim for.

edit; sorry forgot to mention that of course the sitters would have to stay annonymous to avoid threatening from the other players.


Edited by bartimeus - 01 Sep 2010 at 10:49
Bartimeus, your very best friend.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2010 at 16:00
I'm not comfortable with that idea.  Real players may become too invested in those "npc" accounts.  Real people become too emotional.  Many people get really mad when they feel unjustly targeted by another player (myself included).  The nice thing about a NPC faction is you can bully them and not feel guilty that you are ruining the play of another player like yourself.  A computer doesn't have any feelings to hurt.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2010 at 20:30
Clap Excellent news, bring it on
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2010 at 00:42
Originally posted by Shrapnel Shrapnel wrote:

I'm not comfortable with that idea.  Real players may become too invested in those "npc" accounts.  Real people become too emotional.  Many people get really mad when they feel unjustly targeted by another player (myself included).  The nice thing about a NPC faction is you can bully them and not feel guilty that you are ruining the play of another player like yourself.  A computer doesn't have any feelings to hurt.


Thats the best thing about MMO's. Every action has a reaction. And whats the fun in a game where your emotions are not part of it Wink Why else do you think some people are addicted to gambling.. And Illyriad is just that, you can win... or lose Ouch  And here Its all about contacts and who you have to back you up in battle Wink

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