Tournaments and War - Proposal |
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Djehuti
New Poster Joined: 21 Dec 2015 Status: Offline Points: 37 |
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Despite being a member of an alliance which very much enjoys tournament participation and would also find benefit in a 'rule' such as this, I cannot support this idea. I get the impression that, for the most part, most wars that have happened have had enough preamble that the involved parties had time to strategize and prepare to some extent. If an alliances preparation includes using your troops to fight a tournament, then perhaps it's time to reevaluate your priorities. Regardless of your alliances specific goals and desires for game-play, this is still a sandbox game heavily focused towards warfare, and ignoring the other aspects of the game does not stop the other aspects from happening to or around you. Yes, you certainly have the right to play as you see fit, but so does everyone else - your strategy and goals should reflect this truth. This proposition also heavily favors tournament players, without giving thought to other game styles. So, if you're going to agree with this idea, why stop there? a 30 day truce after someone is involved in a war. a 30 day truce after the HoC awakens, for mystery-seekers. A 30 day truce after a crafter invests all their gold/resources into production ques or materials. A 30 day truce after holidays for people who claim to have a real life (i hear they exist). A 30 day truce after a 30 day truce, for people who dont log in as often as those who wish to attack them. Silly, yes? If you don't want to war with other alliances, work harder on your diplomatic skills and inter-alliance relationships to prevent such events from happening. One reason Stuk & company were so successful in recruiting players for this most current engagement was due to the reputation vCrow has established for itself throughout that alliances history here. While I wasnt yet playing this game when vCrow rose to its current position of glory, by all accounts that ive read and heard, that position was gained through aggressiveness and strategic diplomatic arrangements. But, now that youre at the top, you claim to no longer seek such things, and yet still expect to retain your position as number one in whichever facets you desire. That is nonsense. I have no doubt you earned your spot at #1, but if you plan on keeping it you can't complain every time someone tries to take you down a notch or seeks vengeance for past actions.
While it may have never made it to the War declaration stage, veiled threats have been made over it, telling us (Horde) to stop and 'reminding' us that most alliances would have already declared war over having their city attacked during a tournament (I'm told i cannot copy and paste direct quotes from IGMs for whatever reason, so that's an abridged version of a comment made towards our alliance from a leader of vCrow after we Attacked and Blockaded a vCrow city that was exo'd to a tourny tile during our first participation in a tournament). At the time, we agreed to cease hostilities and discuss the matter of exo'ing cities after the tourny ended. Im also aware of similar threats made under similar circumstances, which leads me to believe vCrow is fine with making threats of war when its to their advantage. Tho, to be fair, the conversation itself was very polite, and the vCrow member did offer alternative options to help level the playing field. Furthermore, in that same discussion and the discussion that followed on the forums after that tournament, we were told that because the game had no system-backed rules that said a city could not be exo'd next to a tourny tile, that it was a valid game strategy. Fair enough. But, i would argue that sieging those cities or declaring war after a tournament is also allowed by the game system, and is therefore also a valid game strategy.
Maybe. But that's sort of wrapped up in the ideals of RL morality. RL morality comes from RL experience, histories, religions, etc. Illyriad and RL are not the same thing, and do not share the same details that define things such as morality and ethics. Read the in-game history and faction lore and you'll find that the actions of attacking an opponent at their most vulnerable point is very much inline with the moral qualities one might expect from a being of this realm. Additionally, when quite a few players argued against other players exo'ing cities next to tourny tiles because they thought it also "was a weasel maneuver", vCrow (and some others) said they would not stop because they felt they were entitled to pursue any strategic maneuver allowed by the game to gain advantage in the events which they were striving for. The concept of attacking an alliance just after they've participated in a tournament is no different. And, of course, in terms of RL, the winners and losers of war are often determined by which side is willing to take advantage of opportunities presented to them. If you're concerned about this strategy, perhaps it would be worth devoting more effort towards limiting such vulnerabilities.
Seems like a dangerous assumption to make, considering now it has been done and shown to be effective. People don't tend to just ignore successful strategies. (Im not saying fCrow won because of this alone, only that many will likely attribute their success - at least in part - to that strategy.) Tho, i do agree with your other point. Players who break the 10-tile rule or pick on newbies are threatened with hostilities. But how do you use war to threaten someone who is already threatening war? And, if not threats of aggression, what other tools do you have to enforce such a rule? And is vCrow, who is consistently saying they are not interested in war, willing to go to war on behalf of someone else who's being attacked directly after a tournament in order for enforce this 30 day truce idea? Also, though perhaps not directly related to this topic, I am curious: are you suggesting or under the impression that this fCrow/vCrow conflict would have panned out different if fCrow had waited 30 days before attacking? I am only an observer here, so i certainly may be wrong, but there doesnt seem to be much evidence that things would have gone differently had an extra 30 days of preparation been given. As I mentioned above, you knew that war was coming, even before the event. A number of players, including members of your alliance, have already confirmed this. Maybe out of hubris, or denial, or higher expectations of your BL players, you STILL chose to fight in the tournament. Those cities and players lost in the BL could have been avoided. You could have exo'd out before the war. You could have exo'd more into that area to support your players. Bribery could have been attempted. You could have reached out to Stuk & Company before hand, learned what they wanted, and arranged peace terms before a single army was sent. But you didn't do any of that - as far as I know (which could be mistaken), you didn't make any effort to avoid the conflict, and even allowed some of your members to participate in the GC trash talk just prior to and during the war. This wasnt a matter of some newbie or small alliance being picked on - this was one of the largest and most established alliances in the game ignoring a very real and known threat on the horizon in favor of taking home another gold medal. |
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kodabear
Postmaster General Player Council - Astronomer Joined: 18 Jun 2013 Location: Lucerna Status: Offline Points: 1515 |
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The main issue with this happening again is not knowing ahead of time a tourney is happening. THis last tourney player were aware 6 months ahead of time. And with dev tourney, you only get one day notice about the tourney. And if it's a player tourney you can't say for sure if the said alliance you want to go to war with will be taking part fully or at all (since some alliance won't or drop their activity in player ran tourney. plus wars are still pretty rare and so are tourney so imo it won't. likely happen again for this to even matter
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Fanuidhol
Greenhorn Joined: 29 Jan 2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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The forced exodus is related, but I wouldn't of gone to the forums if not for the post-tourney declaration. It was only the maneuver that was called weasel(ish), a "military alliance" shouldn't have to resort to such measures.
P.S. Weasels do help control the rabbit population as we learned today in trivia -------------------------------
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Fanuidhol
Greenhorn Joined: 29 Jan 2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Yes, it is/was meant as a sort of co-operative rule. Idk about you all but I can certainly use a break for RL purposes after a 30 day tourney.
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Jejune
Postmaster General Joined: 10 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1035 |
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Until the day comes where the metagame is somehow effectively "turned off" in Illyriad, participating in tournaments will always be a risky proposition for players and alliances. It always has been and always will be a military gambit.
Alliances should always weigh the risk of participating in a tournament before entering and committing a large portion of their standing armies.
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Fanuidhol
Greenhorn Joined: 29 Jan 2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Yes, 100% for this.
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Fanuidhol
Greenhorn Joined: 29 Jan 2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Yea, 30 days is hardly enough to make up for using 6+ months of troops in a tourney but it's a lot better than 2 or 3 days.
Forgot about this pic |
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Fiona
Wordsmith Joined: 02 Jul 2014 Status: Offline Points: 151 |
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Is this still going on? Aren't you tired of whining? It happened and it's over. I only comment now so you remember I'm here and still a pain in your butt.
Lalala Move on Cheers Saffron Edited by Fiona - 18 Jul 2017 at 23:45 |
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Fanuidhol
Greenhorn Joined: 29 Jan 2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Good points, this is probably why the devs don't pre-announce a tourney.
Edited by Fanuidhol - 18 Jul 2017 at 23:49 |
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Fanuidhol
Greenhorn Joined: 29 Jan 2017 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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Don't sell yourself short, you're much better than a hemorrhoid
Edited by Fanuidhol - 19 Jul 2017 at 00:03 |
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