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5DEC14 - Private Chat, Player Score, Graphs
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abstractdream View Drop Down
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Points: 1865 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abstractdream Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2014 at 21:04
Originally posted by GM Rikoo GM Rikoo wrote:

Updates here, so players will see them when refreshing the forum:

Go to http://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Communication/Chat 

-- transparency can now be turned off or on with a toggle.

-- Text is re-sizable. 

GM Rikoo


I'm on iPad and this doesn't seem to work as intended. The toggle works but it doesn't stick. Am I just doing it wrong or is it not useable on tablets?

EDIT: Well, now it works..lol. SMH

Edited by abstractdream - 06 Dec 2014 at 21:08
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Lil D View Drop Down
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I think that the change regarding the global "population" rank is ill-conceived. The new numbers have nothing to do with what was considered "population" for years (at least for the time since I joined Illyriad), which is "population = food consumption". Also now "population" is used inconsistently in the game. The "Pop" column on the "All Alliances" page, the "Population" column on the Leaderboard, the player's towns overview's "Pop." information, the "Pop" growth graph, and maybe some other pages all use "population" in the familiar sense. So please rename the new ranking "builder's ranking" if you want to keep the math as it is and bring back the population ranking. There is no "the only way is up" for a "population" ranking. Inhabitants come and go with the change of living conditions (room, labour) they find in a town.

Also a player could easily push her score if she really cared. It is as easy as building a level 1 sov structure, demolishing it, rebuilding it, demolishing, ...
Each cycle needs approximately five minutes and adds one point to the score. Of course one could do that with 10 sov plots simultanously and in 10 towns in parallel. That gives a raise of a hundred points every five minutes. So in the long run the new ranking just tells who has the greatest patience in clicking around on the sovereignty page.
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GM ThunderCat View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lil D Lil D wrote:

I think that the change regarding the global "population" rank is ill-conceived. The new numbers have nothing to do with what was considered "population" for years (at least for the time since I joined Illyriad), which is "population = food consumption". Also now "population" is used inconsistently in the game. The "Pop" column on the "All Alliances" page, the "Population" column on the Leaderboard, the player's towns overview's "Pop." information, the "Pop" growth graph, and maybe some other pages all use "population" in the familiar sense. So please rename the new ranking "builder's ranking" if you want to keep the math as it is and bring back the population ranking. There is no "the only way is up" for a "population" ranking. Inhabitants come and go with the change of living conditions (room, labour) they find in a town.

We are renaming to Build score and will be showing current population in places it isn't currently

Originally posted by Lil D Lil D wrote:

Also a player could easily push her score if she really cared. It is as easy as building a level 1 sov structure, demolishing it, rebuilding it, demolishing, ...
Which could be said similarly about trade, attack, defense, quest, magic - you get category points for doing things in game related to that category. Tech would be a bit slower, but you can keep going by having a city razed and starting again on the tree, equally people that capture high tech cities will have less research to add to the points.
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Rill View Drop Down
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Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Originally posted by Lil D Lil D wrote:


[QUOTE=Lil D]
Also a player could easily push her score if she really cared. It is as easy as building a level 1 sov structure, demolishing it, rebuilding it, demolishing, ...
Which could be said similarly about trade, attack, defense, quest, magic - you get category points for doing things in game related to that category. Tech would be a bit slower, but you can keep going by having a city razed and starting again on the tree, equally people that capture high tech cities will have less research to add to the points.

My understanding is that part of why a sales tax was added was to discourage people from doing exactly that with  their trade scores -- essentially trading items back and forth with their alts, which created highly skewed trade scores.  The introduction of sales taxes at least imposed some sort of cost for doing this.

I think that scores work best when there is some "cost" associated with achieving score in a particular area -- whether it is the cost of resources to build things, the cost of maintaining (and rebuilding) diplomatic and military units, or the "cost" of mana used in casting spells.

One problem with using sov buildings to count in the build score is that the cost of building sov buildings, especially at level 1, is almost nothing, either in terms of time or materials.

It is true that some other score categories are too easily manipulated -- raising diplomatic score by repeatedly scouting or spying a "friendly" city springs to mind here; at least in the past you could get diplo score even by diploing yourself!

However, just because other scores are easily manipulated doesn't mean that we should add more easily manipulated (and therefore relatively meaningless) categories.

I don't know for sure how big a problem this will be with regard to the "Build" score category.  I'm willing to wait and see.  But certainly I think it is worthwhile to note the concerns and watch to see if there are problems.

Does anyone have creative solutions to propose?  One idea would be not to count level 1 sov buildings in the build score.  This would not be a perfect solution, but at least building to level 2 requires more of a commitment of time and materials.
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Brandmeister View Drop Down
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Points: 2396 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2014 at 23:36
A cottage would be the best way to up the score. 60 seconds to build, and 150 seconds to demolish, at 4 population. A patient newbie could generate 68.5 population per hour. But that would still take almost 3000 hours to approximate a 200k population account. Now if they used 5 cities, that's like 600 hours of clicking.

I say give them the little win.

Does anyone actually take the scores seriously?
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 7078 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2014 at 23:41
Brand, I think that the "build" score uses absolute building levels.  So you would need to repeat cottage build and demolish 20 times for a level 20 building.  With 30 level 20 buildings in a city, you would need to build and demolish cottages 600 times.  Assuming 10 convenient slots in 2 cities, that's 20 slots, or less than a day's worth of clicking.

I wouldn't do it either, but it would not be difficult.
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Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

So you would need to repeat cottage build and demolish 20 times for a level 20 building. 
That's for the level 20 of a building.

A building from start to level 20 is 

1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+15+16+17+18+19+20 = 210 points

And a city with 25 resource plot and 25 building plots and 1 wall at level 20 is

(25+25+1) * 210 = 10,710 points

A level 5 sovereign structure is:

1+2+3+4+5 = 15 points

A city can support 20 of them:

20 * 15 = 300 points

So fully levelled city with max level 5 sov structures and assuming no reconfigurations would be

10,710 + 300 = 11,010 points

So in your example you'd need to repeat cottage build and demolish 11,010 times

*edit corrected Sov maths


Edited by GM ThunderCat - 07 Dec 2014 at 20:47
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Rill View Drop Down
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Thanks TC, I didn't think through the counting of the previous builds part.  That helps me understand better.
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Artefore View Drop Down
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Originally posted by GM ThunderCat GM ThunderCat wrote:

Originally posted by Rill Rill wrote:

So you would need to repeat cottage build and demolish 20 times for a level 20 building. 
That's for the level 20 of a building.

A building from start to level 20 is 

1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9+10+11+12+13+14+15+16+17+18+19+20 = 210 points

And a city with 25 resource plot and 25 building plots and 1 wall at level 20 is

(25+25+1) * 210 = 10,710 points

A level 5 sovereign structure is:

1+2+3+4+5 = 15 points

A city can support 50 of them:

50 * 15 = 225 points

So fully levelled city with max level 5 sov structures and assuming no reconfigurations would be

10,710 + 225 = 10,935 points

So in your example you'd need to repeat cottage build and demolish 10,935 times

Ohhhhhhhhhh......
"don't quote me on that" -Artefore
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Rill View Drop Down
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Points: 7078 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2014 at 06:03
I think a city can have a maximum of only 20 sov structures though.  Unless something has changed?

/me looks hopeful
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