DB in the Coalition War |
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Rill
Postmaster General Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 7078 |
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As I said Angrim, you and I had different ways of approaching the matter. Personally I think if TCol had better friends that were more clear with them that the path they were on was a destructive one, it would have served them better.
Sometimes friends are the only people who will tell you what you don't want to hear.
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Angrim
Postmaster General Joined: 02 Nov 2011 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 1212 |
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Ander
Postmaster General Joined: 24 Apr 2011 Status: Offline Points: 1269 |
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It may be something different, but it does seem like one rook using confidential information to discredit another rook.
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Nokigon
Postmaster General Player Council - Historian Joined: 07 Nov 2010 Status: Offline Points: 1452 |
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Clearly, you have never tried to change Kale's mind. Incidentally, if we can dispose with the patronising rhetoric about how the Dominion have been bad and now they've been put on track... I regret a lot of things I've done in this game. I regret going to war against PLAN. I regret any diplomacy I've made that was not to my best standard. I regret supporting Kale's land claim IF (and I still am yet to receive any proof or examples of this) it meant that new players were forced out of a region. I could go on. What I do NOT regret is joining and fighting alongside the Dominion. If I could have to choice to join the war and again, I would do so. We were always aware of the risks we were taking, and Kale was no fool who thought that everything was going to be fine. We always knew that the way we played would either lead to victory or to defeat. And I personally didn't give a damn about that, because this is a game and I play it for my own enjoyment. And I believe that DB, TCol and T-O are the best friends that I could have in this game. I appreciate them much more than a group of sycophants who would be terrified of any sort of action for fear of the consequences.
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Deranzin
Postmaster Joined: 10 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 845 |
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Indeed, but it rarely goes vice-versa ...
I do not think discredit is the correct word here because it implies that the said "confidential information" is false or misrepresented, which is something that we cannot really know since it is confidential ... |
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Just like a "before and after" ad ! ahahahaah :p |
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Angrim
Postmaster General Joined: 02 Nov 2011 Location: Laoshin Status: Offline Points: 1212 |
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Rill
Postmaster General Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 7078 |
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Angrim, it is handy to blame me, but in fact TCol's policies put them at odds with many other alliances as well. If Kale had been more responsive to my gentler attempts at persuasion, then this destructive war might not have been necessary. You disagree with my approach, and this is fine -- but it is a matter of opinion rather than of fact.
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Deranzin
Postmaster Joined: 10 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 845 |
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Was war necessary then because he wouldn't be persuaded from your "gentler attempts" .?. You are not making it sound much better, you know ...
Is it really though .?. Kale "disagreed with your approach" and you deemed "war necessary" ...
Considering the IGM Angrim has, his view is more fact and yours is more opinion, imho ... |
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Just like a "before and after" ad ! ahahahaah :p |
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Tyrande Whisperwinds
Wordsmith Joined: 02 Mar 2013 Location: Portugal Status: Offline Points: 177 |
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Said it once, will say it again.
This war (and prolly many others b4), started because a handfull of players orchastrated it. There was player X, who didn't like player Y, and player Z saw he could benefit from the conflict, and bam! 90% of the server got dragged into it. Glad to be out of this dirty war. |
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Rill
Postmaster General Player Council - Geographer Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 7078 |
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Deranzin, I think Nokigon has made it clear that Kale was the one who saw war as a solution. I was on sabbatical from Illy when the war began (and for months beforehand), so persistent efforts to credit and/or blame me for the war don't really have much basis in reality.
I still haven't received a copy of the mail Angrim cited as proving his point; I remember sending all Crow rooks a mail alerting them to the situation, but I honestly don't recall what I said other than "heads up, there may be trouble." As I have said, Angrim and I had a difference of opinion about how to approach TCol's exclusive claim -- he believed accommodation was the best answer, I thought open and frank opposition was a better approach. I believed then and I believe now that it is possible to disagree with someone without desiring a war about it. In some ways I think the disagreement between Kale and me reflects differing philosophies about how to maintain a successful defensive posture in Illyriad. Kale's approach emphasized exclusive control of territory. It is possible that this was merely intended as a demonstration of power or sort of ego-driven quest for dominance, but I prefer not to read it that way. Rather, I think he perceived it as the best way to keep he and his alliance "safe" in a world that he perceived as dangerous. I think he believed that not having potential adversaries within a core region (everyone who was not Dominion being considered a potential adversary) and maintaining and demonstrating significant military strength was the best way to maintain and strengthen his alliance's position. I disagree with this approach. I think that living peacefully with a mixture of people -- even those with whom one might eventually have conflict -- is the soundest approach. The act of excluding folks with whom one might have conflict, in my view, tends to create more conflict than it avoids. I also believe that creating an exclusive area of control is not more successful as a military strategy than maintaining a fairly concentrated BUT NON-EXCLUSIVE distribution of cities. Personally I think that the results of the current conflict have if not vindicated at least tended to support my point of view. It has been demonstrated that maintaining exclusive control of a region does not imbue one with magical protection. Some might argue that this is merely because of the great odds, but those odds were significantly more even at the beginning of the war, and the result has been that those alliances that sought to maintain exclusive control of a region did not find that it provided them with a significant advantage over alliances with large concentrations of cities in neighboring regions that did NOT have exclusive control. Some might argue that by settling a city in the area claimed exclusively by TCol, Ryelle was imposing her view on Kale as much as Kale was attempting to impose his view on others. This concern was what ultimately made Ryelle choose to remove the city, even after Kale had agreed to let it stay. A lot of times in Illy (and probably real life too), honest disagreements about what is most effective and/or what is most ethical get lost in ego battles and personality conflicts. I am as subject to this rule as much as anyone, and I appreciate those who point out to me when I am falling victim to this problem. I do struggle with whether there might have been a more effective way to express my disagreement in this issue -- perhaps standing back and letting time do its work would have been better. And yet at the same time, if I passively waited for others to to act, would that necessarily produce a better result? Interesting questions, and ones I struggle with.
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