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Topic Closed13MAR11 - Early trade changes

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GM Stormcrow View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 09:42
Originally posted by Mr Andersson Mr Andersson wrote:

It says in the research tree that Commerce i available from Lvl 18, but above it says Lvl 20... 




Ooops. Fixed in the description above.  It is available from L18 marketplace.

SC
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 09:58
On the upkeep front, it's definitely something we've considered - and haven't yet written off as a possibility.

However, we were slightly concerned about a number of things. For example:

  • The display of this upkeep in an easy-to-understand way, consistently across the site (ie on the Trade Summary, on the Castle Taxation page etc)
  • We'd need a "disband caravans" option in place
  • What happens if you run out of Gold in your town and we have to disband caravans... but those caravans are carrying goods...?  Or even worse, someone else's goods as part of a trade order?
  • Would this make assessing profit on a trade deal quite difficult to do, as you'd now have a new "overhead" number (time the caravans sat on the marketplace servicing the offer or travelling, and therefore costing gold); but that this overhead would only apply to some orders and not others?
  • This would fix a minimum price (for all items) if a player wished to recoup the cost of the caravan upkeep.  Generally we want market pricing to be as free as possible from system impositions.
  • Would this not (as things are currently, before "trade visibility" is implemented) create an out-of-your-control variable P&L on a trade?  A player at the other end of the map who accepts your trade deals and thereby tying up your caravans for a 6-day round trip, costing you X gold, might then turn your trade into a loss - and you had no control over it.
There are quite a few considerations here, and given the imminent introduction of taxation on trades we felt that this taxation itself might serve the equivalent purpose of upkeep.  This trade offer taxation doesn't, of course, effect the direct sending of goods town-to-town, but we have another plan for influencing that somewhat (details to be announced).

Regards,

SC
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Rupe View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 11:04
Originally posted by Raritor Raritor wrote:

Good!! 40 caravans were getting small.

Going back to what you mention about not adding upkeep to caravans, i think some players will not be bothered at all for paying for more caravans, maybe you can leave the first 40 or 70 for free, and then start charging for them, say 10 for the 1st, 20 for the 2nd (30 for all), 30 for the 3rd (60 so far), and so on. This way you can get many more, but after a quantity not really interesting.

Perhaps these charges are a little low.
The rate is good but if started from 0 it would be simpler to follow.
I would say
1 gold per hour per caravan would fit in well and an option to retire vans would also be nice.
Lets get ahead of ourselves and say in V3 vans can be hired out. Shocked


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Createure View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 11:32
Some welcome changes here I'm sure, they make the system make a little more sense, and again a bit more nooby friendly.

But essentially, for an advanced player, all this means is that they now you get to transport 210k resources instead of 120k per city per shipment.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 11:42
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:


  • What happens if you run out of Gold in your town and we have to disband caravans... but those caravans are carrying goods...?  Or even worse, someone else's goods as part of a trade order?


If you run out of gold the caravans already moving will be disbanded when they are back home (as they are not home, news of the lack of money have not been received).

Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

  • Would this make assessing profit on a trade deal quite difficult to do, as you'd now have a new "overhead" number (time the caravans sat on the marketplace servicing the offer or travelling, and therefore costing gold); but that this overhead would only apply to some orders and not others?
  • This would fix a minimum price (for all items) if a player wished to recoup the cost of the caravan upkeep.  Generally we want market pricing to be as free as possible from system impositions.
  • Would this not (as things are currently, before "trade visibility" is implemented) create an out-of-your-control variable P&L on a trade?  A player at the other end of the map who accepts your trade deals and thereby tying up your caravans for a 6-day round trip, costing you X gold, might then turn your trade into a loss - and you had no control over it.
SC


We are talking about upkeep cost when you caravans are above a number, so if you decide to build them, you take those risks. Now all have 40 caravans, soon many will have 70 (that's almost double). Some of us want to have more. The first 70 are for free, you will pay for the others, so we have to decide if the cost is reasonable, if we made a wrong decision and lost some money... bad luck.

Hope it helps

Thanks



Edited by Raritor - 14 Mar 2011 at 11:43
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 12:04
Another idea, once Trade v2 is implemented, is to have a caravan tax rather than caravan upkeep.  Have the Imperial tax rate be incremented based on the number of caravans owned.  That would eliminate the "run out of money" problem, as charges could only be incurred if the player had enough gold to complete the transaction.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 12:33
Factoring operating costs into merchantile operations rarely works out into something that can be simply mapped to a per-sale overhead anyway.  Traders would just have to be competent economists, else wing it.

And, of course, challenge => opportunity
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 16:33
My not silly idea;
 
1)   Create 'Merchant' class as a player role.
2)   Merchant player would pay business tax based on actual profits.
3)   Merchant would have access to different styles of caravan to build, at differing costs and upkeep.
4)   I eat pizza.
 
I'm just saying, you know?
I am a Machine.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 17:06
Originally posted by GM Stormcrow GM Stormcrow wrote:

Would this not (as things are currently, before "trade visibility" is implemented) create an out-of-your-control variable P&L on a trade?  A player at the other end of the map who accepts your trade deals and thereby tying up your caravans for a 6-day round trip, costing you X gold, might then turn your trade into a loss - and you had no control over it.


Still no to make it so people can say people X distance away cannot accept your trade offers?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 17:08
I agree with Raritor!
Good changes, I'm upgrading my trading skills yet in all my cities I'm a trading enthusiast!
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