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Poaching Kills
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Poll Question: Do you poach kills (outside of the noob ring)?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
8 [47.06%]
9 [52.94%]
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Miklabjarnir View Drop Down
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Points: 73 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Miklabjarnir Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2018 at 23:54
It is a common fallacy to believe that a heap of remains means something has been killed by a player. Most kills I see are by two groups of critters clashing. If somebody feels posessive about a kill, they can at least place a token size 1 army on it.
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eowan the short View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Miklabjarnir Miklabjarnir wrote:

. If somebody feels posessive about a kill, they can at least place a token size 1 army on it.

If somebody really feels the need to harvest a kill then they can at least send a token size 10 scout force to it.
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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Ten Kulch View Drop Down
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Points: 678 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 23:47
Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

Originally posted by Miklabjarnir Miklabjarnir wrote:

. If somebody feels posessive about a kill, they can at least place a token size 1 army on it.


If somebody really feels the need to harvest a kill then they can at least send a token size 10 scout force to it.

If somebody really feels the need to harvest a kill and be possessive about it, they can kill it themselves. Problem solved.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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eowan the short View Drop Down
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Points: 1255 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2018 at 23:58
If the only thing that matters in the ownership of a kill is having an army occupying it, does that mean the people who poach would see nothing wrong with parking an army on a kill they didn't make?
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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Ten Kulch View Drop Down
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Points: 678 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 18:26
Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

If the only thing that matters in the ownership of a kill is having an army occupying it, does that mean the people who poach would see nothing wrong with parking an army on a kill they didn't make?

I'm not sure who said that. Sending troops to someone else's kill is a great way to kill their skinners and cause a dispute.

To me, the only thing that matters in the ownership of a kill is having killed it yourself. Leaving your army advertises your ownership of your kill, and if the parts are valuable, that makes good sense.
Check out my blog, Warmongering in Illyriad for self-defense techniques, military city construction, and PvP strategies.
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eowan the short View Drop Down
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Points: 1255 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 18:37
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

If the only thing that matters in the ownership of a kill is having an army occupying it, does that mean the people who poach would see nothing wrong with parking an army on a kill they didn't make?

I'm not sure who said that. Sending troops to someone else's kill is a great way to kill their skinners and cause a dispute.

To me, the only thing that matters in the ownership of a kill is having killed it yourself. Leaving your army advertises your ownership of your kill, and if the parts are valuable, that makes good sense.

As far as I know, no one has said they'd be fine with sending troops to someone else's kill but to me it seems like the logical progression of the position of the poachers.

Hmm... have there been situations in the past where people have intentionally used someone's reaction to poaching as a pre-text for kicking off a war or something like that?

I agree entirely that the ownership of the kill is the one who paid in the form of troops to make said kill.
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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TomBombadil View Drop Down
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Points: 78 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomBombadil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2018 at 15:34
Most of my harvesting is from massive Critter on Critter kills.

Unless you park an army on it I have absolutely no way whatsoever to know whether it is your kill or not. If you can't be bothered by showing interest in a kill with an army or harvesters I'm going to assume you don't want it.

It is also very easy to just plonk down a tiny army on it for a day or two to mark your kill... I mean, you had to send an army there to kill it in the first place didn't you...

Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

Hmm... have there been situations in the past where people have intentionally used someone's reaction to poaching as a pre-text for kicking off a war or something like that?

Wasn't there a war about a useless Trove mine at some point?
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Wartow View Drop Down
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Points: 924 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wartow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2018 at 17:47
This thread is on page 3 which is already 2 pages too long.  I initially volley'ed with Eeoworms because I thought the back and forth was good for newer players to see a snapshot of the current diversity in thinking that exists within the community.  

Key points in summary:
  • Each person, and perhaps alliance, will have their views and there isn't one way that is considered to be a community consensus on the matter. 
  • Communication is key to resolve any perceived trespass and most in the community are level-headed enough to come to an acceptable resolution.  Many will offer compensation and/or an apology without looking to start a blame game or provoke further escalation.  Others will just move on and write it off as just one of those things that happens.
  • Know your neighbors and their philosophies.  It is nice to find those that are compatible with your approach to the game, especially when seeking to relocate or join an alliance. 
Happy hunting, harvesting, poaching, or whatever is you do!
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eowan the short View Drop Down
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Points: 1255 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2018 at 20:08
Originally posted by TomBombadil TomBombadil wrote:

Most of my harvesting is from massive Critter on Critter kills.

Unless you park an army on it I have absolutely no way whatsoever to know whether it is your kill or not. If you can't be bothered by showing interest in a kill with an army or harvesters I'm going to assume you don't want it.

Please read the rest of the thread, its dead simple to find out if a kill is critter v critter. Just scout them. Its not hard. And surely you want to know the stuff you're harvesting is actually worthwhile seeing as you haven't killed it so you have a nice efficiency bonus there as you'll only harvest the useful stuff.

Originally posted by TomBombadil TomBombadil wrote:

It is also very easy to just plonk down a tiny army on it for a day or two to mark your kill... I mean, you had to send an army there to kill it in the first place didn't you...

Its also very easy to scout them, I mean, you do have them just sitting around in your town... The issues with occupying are that:
 a) It uses up a commander who could be used for hunting other NPC, 
b) It places the commander at risk of being killed and then having to be resurrected if the square gets hit by either another NPC or another hunter who was just too late,
c) What if you don't see the army that's there for the day?

Originally posted by TomBombadil TomBombadil wrote:

Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

Hmm... have there been situations in the past where people have intentionally used someone's reaction to poaching as a pre-text for kicking off a war or something like that?

Wasn't there a war about a useless Trove mine at some point?

I mean more in relation to poaching kills rather than mines but I guess that one fits too... and the silversteel wars recently as well...
This is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some person started it, not knowing what it was, and we'll continue posting on it forever just because...
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TomBombadil View Drop Down
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Points: 78 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote TomBombadil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2018 at 12:09
Originally posted by eowan the short eowan the short wrote:

Originally posted by TomBombadil TomBombadil wrote:

It is also very easy to just plonk down a tiny army on it for a day or two to mark your kill... I mean, you had to send an army there to kill it in the first place didn't you...
Its also very easy to scout them, I mean, you do have them just sitting around in your town... The issues with occupying are that:
 a) It uses up a commander who could be used for hunting other NPC, 
b) It places the commander at risk of being killed and then having to be resurrected if the square gets hit by either another NPC or another hunter who was just too late,
c) What if you don't see the army that's there for the day?

All of this puts the onus on every other person in Illy who didn't make the kill. That's just nonsensical.
It is far easier for the person who made the kill to claim it visibly that to expect every other single person in Illy to scout it out and play Sherlock Holmes first.

If you want it, show that you want it. Don't expect every other person on the map to go through the trouble of playing detective around an unclaimed kill because that isn't going to happen. You will inevitably be disappointed and have an unintended conflict that could all have been avoided by just controlling your own actions at a trivial personal cost.
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