Play Now Login Create Account
illyriad
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Discussion: Does the market in Illy "work"?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Discussion: Does the market in Illy "work"?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
 Rating: Topic Rating: 1 Votes, Average 3.00  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Trader Tiro! View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster
Avatar

Joined: 06 Oct 2017
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Tiro! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 15:08
The Market Works...u just have to figure it out. Tongue
Instead of writing gibberish about it not working, perhaps u should try reading or watching the instruction videos...they are somewot useful Wacko
Back to Top
Doophusson View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2019
Location: Terra
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doophusson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 09:13
If the market was efficient, with rational actors, then people would take the opportunity offered by the low price of horses to make a profit selling their food in preference to producing horses. That would be a working market.

I think one reason this isn't happening is that players are placing a value on creating their own horses - ie they're behaving irrationally.

Another reason is that the visibility of Centrum to every player, despite their distance from it, concentrates trade in that location, but that makes trade less efficient because of the distances involved.
Back to Top
Garth View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 2012
Location: Somewhere, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 249
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Garth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 17:41
Originally posted by Doophusson Doophusson wrote:

If the market was efficient, with rational actors, then people would take the opportunity offered by the low price of horses to make a profit selling their food in preference to producing horses. That would be a working market.

I think one reason this isn't happening is that players are placing a value on creating their own horses - ie they're behaving irrationally.

Another reason is that the visibility of Centrum to every player, despite their distance from it, concentrates trade in that location, but that makes trade less efficient because of the distances involved.

Many people DO sell food instead of producing horses. And many other people just can't be bothered, or don't care enough, or haven't done the math and don't realize that horses (and a couple of other resources) are selling for less than the value of their components.

Do keep in mind that the Horse paddock is a building plot that cannot be replaced by anything else. So if you're not using it to produce horses, it's essentially wasted.

As for the visibility of Centrum, that coupled with the size of the map/number of active players really makes it hard to establish other trade centers. If there were thousands and thousands of active accounts across that large map, there would be far more trade activity in far reaches.
Back to Top
DeathDealer89 View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster


Joined: 04 Jan 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 927
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeathDealer89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 00:23
I agree that horses are effectively free to produce, most warehouses are maxed out food included although less often.  You also completely skipping the cost of shipment, shipping 3000 horses takes 1 van while shipping 255k basics takes 85 vans more than 1 trip.  I can trade 85x the number of horses than I can the amount of resources.   Don't forget that there are also 11 other adv res that can be made and sold.  

The cost of basics is the shipment, the actual resources are free.  A rational actor takes all costs into consideration and doesn't ignore the largest one.  
Back to Top
Dungshoveleux View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster


Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 879
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dungshoveleux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 22:11
The main reason the market doesn't "work" is that you cannot turn horses directly back into basic resources! Horses are for free. I had around 5m of them at the last time of looking.
Back to Top
rajput View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Location: Punjab
Status: Offline
Points: 233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rajput Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 23:48
Most manufactured goods cannot be turned back into raw / base resources... I dont know how that is any relevant.

All basic goods (along with Horses) in Illyriad market are now at Over-Supply stage. There are number of factors to it;
a) Simply, 'Supply' is greater than 'Demand/Consumption'.
b) Considering every player have equal ability to produce basic goods at same res cost (whether they choose to do so or not), makes it complicated to dictate or control the prices in open/free market.
c) There is abundance of base resources which are required for manufacturing of basic goods.
d) Similarly, Illyriad is small community, it is quite easy to reach abundance of basic goods. 
e) Willingness of traders to trade at lower prices (or in another words, lack of patience).
f) Relatively peaceful and prosperous times.

For basic goods prices to gain, a number of above mentioned factors need to change. Moreover, in good Alliances it is quite easy to get basic resources and goods many times at Zero cost. đź¤· 

Regarding profitability of basic resources vs basic manufacture goods; That is very logical because basic resources have higher consumption than basic goods and lower supply than basic goods. Basic resources are needed to build up cities as well as basic goods. Shipping issue, as mentioned by DeathDealer89, also contributes to lack of supply in market.

Another thing, If you take a deeper look at the point (B) I mentioned above, one implication you can drive from it is that in a perfectly insulated environment you will never be able to drive profit from manufactured basic goods... Why?... Because everyone can easily gain the ability to manufacture goods for themselves, moreover they can as easily enter the market and compete with you for whatever demand there is.

Having said all that, I dont think there is anything wrong with market mechanics or anything... What we are experiencing, has allot deeper roots/causes... 


Warning! Author of this post has weird sense of humor...
Back to Top
Tensmoor View Drop Down
Postmaster General
Postmaster General
Avatar

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 1105
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 02:28
There is a very simple explanation - any item is only worth what somebody will currently pay for it.

If I put horses up at 1 million per nobody would buy them - that is more than they are willing to pay for them. If I put them up at 1 per then they will be gone in a flash - that is less than folks are willing to pay for them.

That doesn't mean the market is broken. It means I put them up at the wrong prices if I wanted to get the maximum gold quickly.
Back to Top
Dungshoveleux View Drop Down
Postmaster
Postmaster


Joined: 09 Nov 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 879
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dungshoveleux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 23:59
Originally posted by rajput rajput wrote:

Most manufactured goods cannot be turned back into raw / base resources... I dont know how that is any relevant.
It is relevant because if you could convert things back into their constituent parts, then people would make money by doing it because the parts are worth more than the whole item. Purely in gold terms, it isn't worth manufacturing anything. Its cheaper to buy!
Back to Top
Doophusson View Drop Down
New Poster
New Poster
Avatar

Joined: 26 May 2019
Location: Terra
Status: Offline
Points: 5
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doophusson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 12:11
Okay. So a large cost for goods in the Illyriad market is shipping cost, which is somewhat hidden because you can't rent caravans from other players.

This is exaggerated because of the Centrum effect.

I also take the point about resources not being scarce.

I think there are changes that could be made that would make trading more perilous, reduce the security with which resources could be stored long term and create more encouragement for limited warfare (that wouldn't drive people out of the game, but would increase the demand for goods).
Back to Top
rajput View Drop Down
Forum Warrior
Forum Warrior
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2017
Location: Punjab
Status: Offline
Points: 233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rajput Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 16:25
Originally posted by Dungshoveleux Dungshoveleux wrote:

It is relevant because if you could convert things back into their constituent parts, then people would make money by doing it because the parts are worth more than the whole item.
Every production or manufacturing process will incur losses including material loss. Similarly, every recycling process will also incur losses. Therefore, even if it is allowed to convert or recycle products, you will never get back the original quantity of materials you put in to a product after recycling it.

Also you have to be a little logical about certain things, you cannot recycle horses and livestock. You may process them into food but you cannot get the wood or iron or gold back from them. There are similar issues with recycling swords, spears etc... You will not be able to recover all materials.

Originally posted by Dungshoveleux Dungshoveleux wrote:


Purely in gold terms, it isn't worth manufacturing anything. Its cheaper to buy!
Yes very true. Players have the option of seizing production and using the supplies available in the market. Totally up to them.


Warning! Author of this post has weird sense of humor...
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.