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Combat, Equipment and Divisional Bonuses

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    Posted: 02 Jul 2015 at 12:51
I've had a few doubts about the equipment bonuses ever since the modifications were made a few months ago which significantly increased some of the bonuses. I had come to the conclusion that I was not getting a divisional bonus, and I stopped allowing for it. Yesterday I lost a battle to NPCs that I think I should have won, even without a divisional bonus, and it has prompted me to seek advice to see if I am misunderstanding something, or if somebody else is having similar problems.

There is probably a way of linking to the battle report but I'm not sure how, and maybe I can put that in another post if it is needed for clarification. I sent a group of orc t2 cavalry (death packs) to fight scaled chargers, in a small forest. There were three groups of chargers, two were infantry and one was cavalry, so I added up the defence points against cavalry, multiplied by 30% for the infantry, took off 10% for the cavalry and that gave 71767 defence points, after terrain modification. I have since run this through the battle calculator on bestmagicbears.com, and that agrees with me up to now.

My army had 5 t2 cavalry commanders, maxed out for heroism and charge, each leading a division of 60 t2 cavalry. From my military overview page the commanders each attack with 4138 points and each division attacks with 4071. Allowing for a 10% terrain penalty, that would give me 36940 attack points, and it is a clear loss. Again the battle calculator confirms this. When I add the equipment it should be a different story. Each commander had a boar spear and over padded chainmail and all the troops had boar spears. From my understanding a boar spear has a 120% bonus against animals and a 16% attack penalty. Now I assume that to mean there is a 104% attack bonus. In other words, it slightly more than doubles the attack points. Forgetting the divisional bonus for now, I expected the equipment bonus to take the total attack value to 84668. (After the -10% terrain modifier that was an additional 19052 for the troops with boar spears and 28676 for the commanders with boar spears and over padded chainmail). That now beats the 71767 and should be a win.

I had mentioned earlier that I was assuming there was no divisional bonus. My armies page from the military section shows there should be a divisional bonus because the appropriate icons are displayed. I have done the research and have 60 troops of the same type in each division. If the equipment bonuses are doubled there is something seriously wrong.

If I have misunderstood something fundamental, perhaps somebody can point me in the right direction. As it stands I'm beginning to think the equipment is not using the same bonuses in battle as appear in the descriptions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2015 at 14:19
I have also encountered situations where my elite hunting army seemed to have enough strength to finish the animals, but fell significantly short on the actual attack. It led me to question whether elite divisions actually applied a double bonus, or whether elite commanders correctly received a double equipment bonus. Separately, I have sometimes questioned if the terrain equipment bonus gets applied correctly, and if boar spears correctly receive their bonus vs animals (or dragon spears vs elementals, etc.).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shûl-nak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2017 at 20:41
Prompted by recent testing I'm bumping this. Here's the maths for proving that the boar spear is underpowered.


Test 1

14 wolfriders lead by one unskilled wolfrider commander attacking on plains.

778.95 defense to beat.

Basic troop attack
14 wolves * (34 (atk) * 1.3 (terrain mod)) = 618.8

Commander attack assuming the elite boar spear bonus is as described (208% bonus attack)
34 * 3.08 * 1.3 = 136.136

(assuming misrepresented bonus using numbers Seadog posted in AC (24% * 2 for elite divisions))
34 * 1.48 * 1.3 = 65.416

618.8 + 136.136 = 754.936 if spear works.
618.8+65.416 = 684.216     if spear doesn't work.

778.95/754.936 = 1.031 : 1 def:atk     = ~3% def survivors     if spear works
778.95/684.216 = 1.138 : 1 def:atk     = ~13% def survivors   if spear does not work

Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Troops: Rabid Hounds Rabid Hounds 21 18 3
Troops: Pups Pups 104 90 14
Troops: Wild Dogs Wild Dogs 51 45 6
Troops: Pack Leaders Pack Leaders 15 13 2

Survivors divided by total number of troops * 100 gives us the percentage of survivors.
25/191 * 100 = 13% survivors.

(The reason both outcomes are failures here is that I initially calculated level 0 heroism commanders as having their base unit attack doubled as outlined in this thread. Level 0 Heroism commanders in armies with no units assigned will show having double their base attack in the Military Overview screen; assigning units will then halve that value for some reason.)

Test 2


40 wolfriders lead by one unskilled wolfrider commander attacking on plains.

1870.75 defense to beat.

40 * (34 * 1.3) = 1768 total troop attack.

Commander values remain unchanged from the last test, so:

If spear = 208%   bonus then sum is         1768 + 136.136     =     1904.136. Victory.

If spear = 48%     bonus then sum is         1768 + 65.416       =      1870.75/1833.416 = 1.02:1 def:atk ratio = ~2% defenders survive.








 
Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Troops: Alpha Wolves Alpha Wolves 31 31 0
Troops: White Wolves White Wolves 37 36 1
Troops: Wolfpups Wolfpups 119 116 3
Troops: Grey Wolves Grey Wolves 9 8 1

4 / 196 * 100 = 2... 2% survivors.

The boar is broken, baby. Apparently still stuck at the pre-crafted item buff level.



Edited by Shûl-nak - 03 Mar 2017 at 20:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2018 at 19:16
Anti-animal gear sucks hard, guys. I checked it couple years ago. It was something like: plainsamn spear adds around 4,5k attack on plains, and boar spear adds about 0.5k attack per elite commander against animals. I do not know why, but anti animal geardoes suck. I mathimaticly checked boar spears, overpadded chains, spiked armor, spiked sword. All sucks. Terrain gear and silversteel swords rule it all
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dabrelis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2018 at 20:52
Originally posted by Sene Sene wrote:

Anti-animal gear sucks hard, guys. I checked it couple years ago. It was something like: plainsamn spear adds around 4,5k attack on plains, and boar spear adds about 0.5k attack per elite commander against animals. I do not know why, but anti animal geardoes suck. I mathimaticly checked boar spears, overpadded chains, spiked armor, spiked sword. All sucks. Terrain gear and silversteel swords rule it all
Has this ever been raised for Devs or maybe even fixed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Torn Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2018 at 23:17
From the attacks i made the boar spear only gives ~20% to attack, and its apparently been this way a long time so i doubt it will get fixed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 03:29
Originally posted by Dabrelis Dabrelis wrote:

Has this ever been raised for Devs or maybe even fixed?

Honestly dunno, personally never bothered to and don't know if anyone did
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 04:00
Originally posted by Seadog Seadog wrote:

... I have since run this through the battle calculator on bestmagicbears.com, and that agrees with me up to now.

Man, that's way too outdated, it was released in times crafted wasn't here. Simple Excel like the one present in the Marquesta's profile http://https://elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Player/Profile/57161 works much better.

UPD somewhy the link doesn't work for me. Jiz check Marquesta's profile in game plz. Cheers


Edited by Sene - 01 Jun 2018 at 04:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tensmoor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 13:26
Thanks for the info Sene. The link didn't work because it added a 'http://' on the front making it actually read 'http://https//elgea.illyriad.co.uk/#/Player/Profile/57161'. When you add links in here you need to manually set if it's http or https and check/remove it from the front of the text you post in the link box. A bit of a pain but that's the only way I've found to get them to work.

I've gone through Marquesta's profile but can't find a link to a spreadsheet in there (I've gone through the various sites she links to but no joy). You don't happen to have the link lying about do you?

Once again, thanks for all the info on this Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sene Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2018 at 16:20
Ah, indeed lol. Was too sleepy to notice that, thanks for the update. The calc is on the very top of Marq's profile, called Marauders' hunting calc.

My pleasure!)


Edited by Sene - 01 Jun 2018 at 16:21
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