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Combat, Equipment and Divisional Bonuses

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Seadog View Drop Down
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    Posted: 02 Jul 2015 at 12:51
I've had a few doubts about the equipment bonuses ever since the modifications were made a few months ago which significantly increased some of the bonuses. I had come to the conclusion that I was not getting a divisional bonus, and I stopped allowing for it. Yesterday I lost a battle to NPCs that I think I should have won, even without a divisional bonus, and it has prompted me to seek advice to see if I am misunderstanding something, or if somebody else is having similar problems.

There is probably a way of linking to the battle report but I'm not sure how, and maybe I can put that in another post if it is needed for clarification. I sent a group of orc t2 cavalry (death packs) to fight scaled chargers, in a small forest. There were three groups of chargers, two were infantry and one was cavalry, so I added up the defence points against cavalry, multiplied by 30% for the infantry, took off 10% for the cavalry and that gave 71767 defence points, after terrain modification. I have since run this through the battle calculator on, and that agrees with me up to now.

My army had 5 t2 cavalry commanders, maxed out for heroism and charge, each leading a division of 60 t2 cavalry. From my military overview page the commanders each attack with 4138 points and each division attacks with 4071. Allowing for a 10% terrain penalty, that would give me 36940 attack points, and it is a clear loss. Again the battle calculator confirms this. When I add the equipment it should be a different story. Each commander had a boar spear and over padded chainmail and all the troops had boar spears. From my understanding a boar spear has a 120% bonus against animals and a 16% attack penalty. Now I assume that to mean there is a 104% attack bonus. In other words, it slightly more than doubles the attack points. Forgetting the divisional bonus for now, I expected the equipment bonus to take the total attack value to 84668. (After the -10% terrain modifier that was an additional 19052 for the troops with boar spears and 28676 for the commanders with boar spears and over padded chainmail). That now beats the 71767 and should be a win.

I had mentioned earlier that I was assuming there was no divisional bonus. My armies page from the military section shows there should be a divisional bonus because the appropriate icons are displayed. I have done the research and have 60 troops of the same type in each division. If the equipment bonuses are doubled there is something seriously wrong.

If I have misunderstood something fundamental, perhaps somebody can point me in the right direction. As it stands I'm beginning to think the equipment is not using the same bonuses in battle as appear in the descriptions.
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Brandmeister View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brandmeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2015 at 14:19
I have also encountered situations where my elite hunting army seemed to have enough strength to finish the animals, but fell significantly short on the actual attack. It led me to question whether elite divisions actually applied a double bonus, or whether elite commanders correctly received a double equipment bonus. Separately, I have sometimes questioned if the terrain equipment bonus gets applied correctly, and if boar spears correctly receive their bonus vs animals (or dragon spears vs elementals, etc.).
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Shûl-nak View Drop Down

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shûl-nak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2017 at 20:41
Prompted by recent testing I'm bumping this. Here's the maths for proving that the boar spear is underpowered.

Test 1

14 wolfriders lead by one unskilled wolfrider commander attacking on plains.

778.95 defense to beat.

Basic troop attack
14 wolves * (34 (atk) * 1.3 (terrain mod)) = 618.8

Commander attack assuming the elite boar spear bonus is as described (208% bonus attack)
34 * 3.08 * 1.3 = 136.136

(assuming misrepresented bonus using numbers Seadog posted in AC (24% * 2 for elite divisions))
34 * 1.48 * 1.3 = 65.416

618.8 + 136.136 = 754.936 if spear works.
618.8+65.416 = 684.216     if spear doesn't work.

778.95/754.936 = 1.031 : 1 def:atk     = ~3% def survivors     if spear works
778.95/684.216 = 1.138 : 1 def:atk     = ~13% def survivors   if spear does not work

Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Troops: Rabid Hounds Rabid Hounds 21 18 3
Troops: Pups Pups 104 90 14
Troops: Wild Dogs Wild Dogs 51 45 6
Troops: Pack Leaders Pack Leaders 15 13 2

Survivors divided by total number of troops * 100 gives us the percentage of survivors.
25/191 * 100 = 13% survivors.

(The reason both outcomes are failures here is that I initially calculated level 0 heroism commanders as having their base unit attack doubled as outlined in this thread. Level 0 Heroism commanders in armies with no units assigned will show having double their base attack in the Military Overview screen; assigning units will then halve that value for some reason.)

Test 2

40 wolfriders lead by one unskilled wolfrider commander attacking on plains.

1870.75 defense to beat.

40 * (34 * 1.3) = 1768 total troop attack.

Commander values remain unchanged from the last test, so:

If spear = 208%   bonus then sum is         1768 + 136.136     =     1904.136. Victory.

If spear = 48%     bonus then sum is         1768 + 65.416       =      1870.75/1833.416 = 1.02:1 def:atk ratio = ~2% defenders survive.

Defenders: Unit: Quantity: Casualties: Survivors:
Troops: Alpha Wolves Alpha Wolves 31 31 0
Troops: White Wolves White Wolves 37 36 1
Troops: Wolfpups Wolfpups 119 116 3
Troops: Grey Wolves Grey Wolves 9 8 1

4 / 196 * 100 = 2... 2% survivors.

The boar is broken, baby. Apparently still stuck at the pre-crafted item buff level.

Edited by Shûl-nak - 03 Mar 2017 at 20:55
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