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Lotharblack View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 21:08
Greetings 

From what i understand ,when 2 armies class the mechanic that determines the result is roughly the following: 

- For the attacker , equipment , terrain and enemy troop type are factored in and the resulting total attack value determines how many defender troops are going to perish. 

For the defender ,, equipment , terrain and enemy troop type are factored in and the resulting total defense value determines how many attacker troops are going to perish. 

Defender values don't matter at al for the attacker and the same goes for the attack values of the attacker. Also defense values do not affect the amount of troops that are going to die on either side. 

So i got some questions for the above : 

- Do regular troops got hit points? I mean if an identical army attacks under identical terrain circumstances a t1 spear army and a t2 spear army , will the number of casualties of the defending army  be the same? 

- Does commander health affects regular troop survivability? I mean will a commander with higher health absorb more dmg? 

- What will happen if an attacking army with sufficient attack value to kill all defenders meet with a defending army with sufficient defend value to kill all attackers? (The answer "Chuck Norris dies " is considered invalid) 

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Ten Kulch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 21:21
The equation is roughly:

Attack = total attack points * terrain modifier * equipment * commander bonuses

The attacker type (cav, sword, bow, spear) determines the defense category of the defender.

Defense = total defense points vs that attack type * terrain modifier * equipment * commander bonuses * wall bonus

The lesser total army is completely destroyed. The army with more points takes casualties as a percent of lesser/bigger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 2017 at 21:26
Commander hit points don't affect troop survival, only the commander's ability to potentially survive multiple battles.

A losing commander is slain with their army. HP doesn't matter when you lose.

The winning commander takes a number of hit points damage equal to the percent of their army that was destroyed. Your commander can still die after a string of victories if they run out of hit points. That is very common during tournaments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dabrelis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 06:26
There is a strange thing that I noticed.
Apparently defenders are kind of “guaranteed” to kill a constant numbers of attackers.

What I mean?
If I use 26 axmen I would kill bunch of animals and lose 8 guys.
If instead I use 30 axmen, I would still kill animals, but lose more - 9 or 10. I could not achieve less than 8 losses, regardless of how many men I fielded.

The implication for hunting is that killing whatever beast comes at almost constant cost. Maybe it can be decreased by having better commanders and/or adding equipment. But NOT by having extra numbers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 06:50
Originally posted by Lotharblack Lotharblack wrote:

Greetings 

- Do regular troops got hit points? I mean if an identical army attacks under identical terrain circumstances a t1 spear army and a t2 spear army , will the number of casualties of the defending army  be the same? 



It won't be the same because T2 spear units have a higher defense score. So, I guess the answer to the question is "yes".

Originally posted by Lotharblack Lotharblack wrote:


- Does commander health affects regular troop survivability? I mean will a commander with higher health absorb more dmg?

Partially: if commander dies (assassinated or killed in a string of repeated successful attacks, like TenK said), the army loses all the commander bonuses and takes bigger damage. Low commander health doesn't affect the army NOR commander hit points in any way.

Originally posted by Lotharblack Lotharblack wrote:


- What will happen if an attacking army with sufficient attack value to kill all defenders meet with a defending army with sufficient defend value to kill all attackers? (The answer "Chuck Norris dies " is considered invalid)

The server will crash and time-space will collapse on itself.
Actually, I've never seen a combat where the attack and defense points lined up so precisely. You'd think everybody dies, but it's an interesting edge case to consider.


Edited by Tink XX - 16 Jan 2018 at 06:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eowan the short Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 06:59
Hmm... it'd be interesting to see what would happen there.

If anyone is up for experimentation, I'm happy to provide a small defensive or attacking dwarvish force.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tink XX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 07:12
Originally posted by Dabrelis Dabrelis wrote:

There is a strange thing that I noticed.
Apparently defenders are kind of “guaranteed” to kill a constant numbers of attackers.

What I mean?
If I use 26 axmen I would kill bunch of animals and lose 8 guys.
If instead I use 30 axmen, I would still kill animals, but lose more - 9 or 10. I could not achieve less than 8 losses, regardless of how many men I fielded.

The implication for hunting is that killing whatever beast comes at almost constant cost. Maybe it can be decreased by having better commanders and/or adding equipment. But NOT by having extra numbers.


Are you hitting precisely the same number of animals? Look at your reports - my hunch is that it's a slight variation of NPC pack size. You can kill NPCs with zero losses in certain circumstances. If you consider the equation TenK provided above, it's clear that you have to exchange N units' worth of attack points for N defenders' worth of defense points. Zero or near-zero losses occur when the NPC pack did so little damage that percentage wise it's not even enough to kill one unit in your division. For example, if the resulting damage was 1% and you have less than 100 units. These kinds of ratios are achieved by using elite divisions and commander's heroism (see Ten Kulch's blog for details), as you have to have few units and a lot of commander attack points. Still occasionally you'll get a unit or two clipped this way, especially if you have 3-4 elite divisions the fractions from each division will add up to a number greater than 1.


Edited by Tink XX - 16 Jan 2018 at 07:13
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Ten Kulch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Ten Kulch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 07:48
It's an "A minus D" combat engine. There are slight variations due to the way casualties are calculated. Generally if it will cost 1000 attackers to kill a particular defender, it doesn't matter if you send 1001 troops, 10000 or 100000. You will lose approximately 1000 in all cases.

Due to the way Heroism works, in micro-battle scenarios like hunting, there is a weird little bump in the curve where sending more troops can cause more casualties. That seems to flatten out very quickly as army sizes climb, and the effect of Heroism becomes negligible.
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Dabrelis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dabrelis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 09:01
Originally posted by Ten Kulch Ten Kulch wrote:

It's an "A minus D" combat engine. There are slight variations due to the way casualties are calculated. Generally if it will cost 1000 attackers to kill a particular defender, it doesn't matter if you send 1001 troops, 10000 or 100000. You will lose approximately 1000 in all cases.

Due to the way Heroism works, in micro-battle scenarios like hunting, there is a weird little bump in the curve where sending more troops can cause more casualties. That seems to flatten out very quickly as army sizes climb, and the effect of Heroism becomes negligible.

Thanks Ten Kulch, makes sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dabrelis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 16:11
Another question. On arythmetics but on topic.

It is more or less clear when attack comes from one type.
Say 1000 attack points from swords, then you compare to sword defense points for all units and - voila!

But what is the algorythm, if I attack with swords and cavalry?
Say got 1000 attack points in swords, and 1000 in cavalry.

Opponent has a group that can gather 2000 defense points for swords (if all were to defend swords) OR 1500 defense points for cavalry (if all were to defend cavalry).

What is the algorithm there?

I should win I guess, with swords annihilated, and cavalry still on 1/4 size.. did I get it right?

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