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Vanerin View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Alliance Strategic Orientation
    Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 15:54
I am posting this on behalf of Gasterix:

'we all know that a little friction between alliances is a good thing as it will drive up prices for weapons and armour, and hence create an opportunity for younger players to profit a little. An "Alliance Strategic Orientation" feature could make everyone happy. For example, declaring your alliance "pacifist" reduces production by 15% and makes you immune to war declarations. Cooldown: one week. Declaring alliance as "agressive" increases production by x % but reduces Confed to max 3 and NAP to max 5 etc etc'
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Rill View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 17:59
Interesting idea.  War declarations don't really change anything in Illy other than the colour of cities and units on the map.  I suppose one could make players immune from attack and unable to attack (or maybe even send military forces).  Or one could give some sort of defense benefit.

I do question the underlying assertion (or implication) that friction between alliances is good for newer players or that newer players profit more from war.  In my experience, newer players don't have the production capability to take advantage of any run-up in prices due to war.  Tournaments like the last tournament use more troops than any war has, as most wars tend to be somewhat limited in scope.

Rather than this complex coding for limited benefit, if the desired end is to increase demand for advanced resources, one could suggest that the devs have more tournaments.

Changes to how confeds and NAPs work are somewhere in the plan, from what the GMs have said on previous occasions.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2012 at 20:34
If your worried about new players, think of it this way. Anything we could possibly suggest now wont be of much use until we know what the immediate future of Illyriad will look like. Right now npc/factions and trade version 2 will be coming out way before anything like this could be implemented. Once factions/npcs start to attack towns, then the prices of goods will go up.

With this idea new players might be forced to get a -15% bonus to production and still have to try and produce/maintain an army that is getting attacked by npcs/factions. While aggressive that already produce way more then they need, are getting a boost to their production. This over all will negatively impact the new players later on.

Even if new players where not to be in a pacifist alliance, they still wouldn't be able to match up with the vets.  Common Ground level 20 lets you create a cow in 7mins. While a level 12 lets you create a cow in about 30mins. So a new player that probably only has 1-3 towns producing between 144 cows a day, cannot compete with a vet that has lets say just 5 towns that have level 20 common ground (1020 cows a day). Then you want to add 15% production onto ones that fight in wars, that means the vet will produce 1173 cows a day.

Now your thinking the vet will be losing supply since he will be at war. That might be true, but you haven't looked at the main flaw in your plan. Since I'm a elf I'll give an example as an elf. I only need one leather armor for a trueshot. So for mass production of trueshots a day, I will only need  115 armors per day. Thats 575 in 5 cities. So because of this, I'll be able to produce 598 more cows then I need per day. Way more then any new player could possibly produce.

Now if you wanted to fix this idea, maybe have something like.. Aggressive alliances (alliances that are in an act of war), are granted a 15% bonus to the production of troops (not goods/resources). Since most cannot sustain high troop numbers for long periods of time, they will be mostly limited by their gold upkeep. This means higher unit production, more loses, more bloodshed, less gold, and of course less advanced resources for higher players over long periods of war. This would of course would create periods of time when things are horribly off balance because of wars. So even an idea like this would be thrown out and no good.

Sorry for the ramble, I got bored and wanted to think. This idea could work, just needs alot more planning.  Though any idea would have to be changed because we (including developers) have no idea how trade version 2 and npcs/factions attacking towns will effect the markets. Specially for new players.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2012 at 02:28
This is not balanced...

Let's say I'm in a war and it's not going well for me... 0.5M gold and all my worries are over... not balanced at all. I bet that every major alliance in game would create a backup pacifist alliance just in case...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2012 at 09:40
Vanerin: thanks a bunch for posting this!

Rill, Quackers and Bonaparta: thanks for the feedback. It was just an idea, not a complete requirements specification.

I actually didn't know that there were no war declaration mechanics. I hope they introduce it.

My reason for suggesting this is that I think we need some mechanics to make alliance warfare more interesting and rewarding. Creating trade opportunities should be a side benefit. Some alliances are in 20+ confederations and have 50+ NAP's, so there is basically only one alliance in Illyriad. This is unhealthy for the game in my humble opinion.

However, there should be some mechanics in place to ensure that there is a safe heaven for players who do not wish to take part in alliance warfare. Ideally it should enable small scale alliance warfare for players who would like a little more than watching roses grow around the Arcitect Office and fight in Alliance Tournaments where there is zero risk involved (troops are not a risk - they are an expendable investment).

Maybe it's as simple as War or peace and Allied or Neutral. The bonuses should make warfare very expensive and be realistic. For example, calling up the militia means that farmers, traders and craftsmen grab the short stabbing spear, wicker shield and a kettle for helmet and runs to the frontline to serve as meat shields.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2012 at 12:20
the more things like that you toss in that do things automatically the more player control goes out the window

but great ideas, just needs less idk...seperating? peaceful alliances get in "disputes" that involve other alliances...

i think losing a town is already a pretty steep cost of war...and shouldn't alliances that are in war already be preparing for battle? why should our towns do that on their own?

could maybe...maybe intro a pvp button type of thingy...like only alliances with pvp turned on can hit other alliances but any alliance can hit a pvp alliance? 


Edited by lokifeyson - 01 May 2012 at 12:30
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2012 at 14:02
These kinds of suggestions are things that happen in other games. These games are much more aggressive in nature and have limitations to protect players from total annihilation by a stronger foe. 

There is no reason to put any of them in Illy because Illy is self-regulating. If we are going to put in bonuses or penalties for attacking or peace, we will lose this self-regulation mechanism.

I like the sandbox-type play in Illy and would much prefer it to stay that way. I think this is also the philosophy of the devs. 

EDIT: This is *especially* true of the suggestion of a pvp switch. That would kill Illy imho.


Edited by Innoble - 01 May 2012 at 14:03
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lokifeyson View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2012 at 14:09
yeah it would, keep your pvp switches at home peeps, in illy you have to be on guard 24/7 cause you never know, and that is a major part of the game
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2012 at 12:58
A PvP flag is a silly idea. I never suggested such a thing. It was just a brain breeze to explore if there are some mechanics available (or easily implemented) we could use to control alliance warfare. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 May 2012 at 01:28
 flag? i said switch or button like im MMORPG's but yeah that is a horrible idea lol
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