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SimplyDivine 
New Poster 
Joined: 30 Sep 2012 Status: Offline Points: 20 |
 Posted: 05 Nov 2014 at 21:12 |
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The devs are completely ignoring the obvious...the issue was not the law or the ToS or anything else...the issue is and always has been the heavy-handed and often selective enforcement of the rules.
Prime Example...After Moka was banned, a certain player stated twice in GC that he was 12 and he was NOT banned. I've had several igms from him, and he's choosing to stay out of GC, but his account is still active. The real question here is...why are some players banned and others not? Is there a set of "rules" to cover that glaring inconsistency? I completely understand the Devs' compliance with the statutes, but to hide behind paragraph after paragraph of legal jargon does NOT change the lack of consistency in enforcement that has angered so many players. |
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Lagavulin
Wordsmith 
Joined: 31 Dec 2012 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 166 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2014 at 21:05 |
2. Who is covered by COPPA?The Rule applies to operators of commercial websites and online services (including mobile apps) directed to children under 13 that collect, use, or disclose personal information from children. It also applies to operators of general audience websites or online services with actual knowledge that they are collecting, using, or disclosing personal information from children under 13. The Rule also applies to websites or online services that have actual knowledge that they are collecting personal information directly from users of another website or online service directed to children. 3. What is Personal Information?The amended Rule defines personal information to include:
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GM Stormcrow
Admin Group 
GM Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Location: Illyria Status: Offline Points: 3485 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2014 at 20:54 |
It was announced in Rikoo's Chat & Community rules update, it's in GM Rikoo's ingame profile, it's in the first post (of only three) in the Rules Of The Game section of the forum, and it's in the ingame patchnotes. All of which were posted when they became active - back in May this year. Regards, SC
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GM Rikoo
Admin Group
Community & PR Manager Joined: 28 Mar 2014 Location: Mars Status: Offline Points: 1233 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2014 at 20:53 |
Hindsight is 20/20 I guess. But, we did have it posted in several locations for a very, very long time and had several discussions on this topic in-game and elsewhere. Sorry you missed those! I will promise you that even as we post this, people will claim they never saw it. We can't go into people's brains directly. Yet. Thanks, GM Rikoo
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Illyriad Community Manager / Public Relations / community@illyriad.co.uk
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Jane DarkMagic
Postmaster 
Joined: 10 Sep 2011 Location: Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 554 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2014 at 20:45 |
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Why did you wait to post this until after someone got banned for an innocent joke? Seems like it would have been wiser to post it as soon as it became applicable.
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GM Rikoo
Admin Group
Community & PR Manager Joined: 28 Mar 2014 Location: Mars Status: Offline Points: 1233 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2014 at 20:31 |
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Feel free to ask questions, but off-topic questions or questions about particular players will be deleted.
GM Rikoo
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Illyriad Community Manager / Public Relations / community@illyriad.co.uk
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GM Stormcrow
Admin Group
GM Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Location: Illyria Status: Offline Points: 3485 |
Posted: 05 Nov 2014 at 20:26 |
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Hi everyone,
I'd like to take this opportunity to explain what COPPA is, and why it is the reason we do not (and cannot) permit people under the age of 13 to play Illyriad. We don't actually have a choice, except to remove from the game any player who identifies themselves as being under the age of 13. Whilst we are a UK company, the servers now reside in the USA, and are therefore subject to a law passed by the US Congress, called COPPA - the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act. We don't ask players for their age in game - in fact, we ask players for zero private information except an optional, non-verified email address they can be contacted at to retrieve a lost password. This is precisely because we do not want to deliberately assume legal responsibilities for protecting personal data, and/or enforcing laws such as COPPA. COPPA makes it abundantly clear precisely how we have to behave in *exactly* these circumstances, in http://www.business.ftc.gov/ "(b) What happens if a child posts in a forum and announces her age?If no one in your organization is aware of the post, then you may not have the requisite actual knowledge under the Rule. However, you may be considered to have actual knowledge where a child announces her age under certain circumstances, for example, if you monitor your posts, if a responsible member of your organization sees the post, or if someone alerts you to the post " ... (for forum you can also read "chatroom"). The legal responsibility falls on us to either seek parental consent from the child's parents (a procedure that we're not willing to do as it introduces an extreme burden of overhead on a very small team. I'm not aware of any games company out there who does this. Our only other option is to delete all the person's information (ie their username, account and data), and prohibit them from further accessing the website. The law is very specific on this, and it doesn't matter whether you yourself are a US citizen or not. Regarding the "but you would never have known had a particular player not volunteered the information themselves" argument. This is indeed true, but is not a defence we are permitted to make. According to Section 12: "I know the COPPA Rule is triggered by the collection of personal information from children, but the information I collect at my site or service is voluntary, not mandatory. Does COPPA still apply?Yes. The Rule governs the online collection of personal information from children by a covered operator, even if children volunteer the information or are not required by the operator to input the information to participate on the website or service. " So once someone volunteers the information that they are under the age of 13, we are held to "know" this, and must, legally, act on it by removing them from the game. Regarding the faintly ridiculous "But I was only joking" argument... it might surprise you to know that the FTC actually has a section on the measures that website operators such as us should take if someone identifies themselves as under the age of 13 and then later tries to amend their age if, for example, they suddenly find themselves unable to use the website. The FTC website even has a section entitled "Am I responsible if children lie about their age during the registration process on my general audience website?" to which the answer is "yes" - once we are aware that the person claims that they are under the age of 13: "operators will be held to have acquired actual knowledge of having collected personal information from a child where, for example, they later learn of a child’s age" I am, of course, sad to see anyone leave the game - but I think many players are assuming that removing players from the game under the COPPA law is something we actually have a choice about, like it's a decision that we've made or that we're choosing to apply rules in a particularly Draconian way. Whatever you or I may personally think about the law is moot... we don't have a choice. It's not optional for us, when someone identifies themselves as being under the age of 13 - then that's it - and if they're lying/joking then that's too bad too. If you don't like this law and you are a US citizen, then please do write to your congressman. If you don't like this law and are not a US citizen, it may surprise or shock you to know that the FTC have applied it (far outside their jurisdiction, in my opinion) to actually say "The law’s definition of “operator” includes foreign-based websites and online services that are involved in commerce in the United States or its territories.". So, basically any website in the world that can be accessed from the USA should technically comply with COPPA though I do wonder how the FTC intends to enforce this. We, however, have to comply, as our gameservers are located in the USA. I hope that helps explain a little bit more about the legislation and why we don't have any choice in whether we apply it or not. Regards, SC EDIT: added italics to some quoted sections
Edited by GM Rikoo - 21 Nov 2014 at 21:00 |
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05NOV14 - COPPA and age restrictions explained
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Jane DarkMagic wrote: